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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Nobby the Bastard |
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Nobby the Bastard Harley Gaydar
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 20:29 - 17 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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They do this exact moderating process every year, it's just based on the actual exam results rather than teacher predictions.
The top x% get an A, then next y% get a B and so-on, it's all down to the bell-curve and they vary the cut-off mark to achieve the gradings (then add a fraction of a percent so the incumbent government can crow about increased student performance under their rule).
The process they have used does exactly the same thing to give the same spread of results overall but they have done it in a complex fashion. Effectively they ignore the teachers actual predicted grade but take their ranking and assign grades based on this as a function of previous performance in that school.
So if a school has had 10% of their maths students awarded an A for the last 3 years, the top 10% of their students (according to the teachers rankings) are awarded an A under this system.
In a big school, this will be pretty fair. In a small pupil number school, it doesn't work so they have taken the teachers predicted grade.
Guess what? In shit schools with persistantly shit performance, they award shit marks.
It's unfair if you have a school that has significantly upped its game recently, got a shit-hot teacher etc. It's also unfair if you have a very gifted pupil in a crap school.
It seems that, on average, 40% of pupil marks have been over-estimated by teachers and those pupils have been down-moderated. It just so happens the poorer performing schools have over-graded students more.
Thing is, the computer is blind, there is no account taken of relative wealth of the schools or ethnic make-up. It's just looking at the raw numbers and the fact is, poorer areas return poorer results year-on year
Of course there is a lot of bawwing. People think (probably correctly) that if they baww loud enough, they will get a higher exam grade.
The solution to me would be to allow people not happy with their grading to sit an exam, or for unis to have an optional entrance exam this year.
The really interesting thing to my mind would be if someone legally challenged the result under the legislation for decisions made by algorithm and demanded a human assessment... ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 20:38 - 17 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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I'll add that I personally would have been totally screwed under this system.
I coasted all the way through school, did no homework or unecessary coursework, fucked about in class and did nothing but turn up for prelim exams making no real effort. However I quietly submitted gold-standard assessed coursework for the exam board and pulled it out of my arse for the actual exam.
Most of my teachers thought I was thick and I was constantly in trouble. My predicted grades were apalling. I finished as the top pupil and was awarded the dux medal. This caused a large amount of consternation in the school staff and there were actually moves to award it to someone else because "It's not fair, other people put a lot more work in". However the head teacher was adamant that it's not about how much work you put in, it's about the results you got. A life lesson right there. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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yen_powell |
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yen_powell World Chat Champion
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Kawasaki Jimbo |
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Kawasaki Jimbo World Chat Champion
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Polarbear |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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biker7 |
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biker7 Crazy Courier
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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biker7 |
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biker7 Crazy Courier
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Posted: 02:37 - 18 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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If an employer sees B for English, he knows the applicant can probably write coherent sentences - if it was a D, maybe not. If for the job, and there are loads beneath med school, a decent command of English is an advantage, then yes, an employer is very interested. If the applicant has had grade inflated, he/she might not be up for the job. Not all jobs need basic skills but many do. There is a big variety between clever and dim! Most of us fit somewhere in between. No, accurate grading has a place in society. The best candidates have decent ability and a bit of 'common' too. What bugs me is politically correct grading. If you have 3 candidates, see them all. If you have 200 letters, grades are a start to short listing, so some accuracy is useful. ____________________ Swansea area
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yen_powell |
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yen_powell World Chat Champion
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Posted: 08:39 - 18 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | yen_powell wrote: |
I failed the English Literature (ungraded), mostly owing to the fact I didn't actually read any of the books we were meant to, god there was some boring old pony to wade through, Henry the 4th part something or other, My Family and Other Animals, can't remember the rest they were so dull. Might have been a poem about dying for your country, not sure now. |
Your powers of bullshit aren't strong enough. I didn't read any of my higher english lit texts either and got a good A (95th percentile). Teacher had been marking me down because she knew full well I was making it all up on the fly (and kept telling her so). The exam marker had no such prior knowledge. | I had a history of not bothering if I didn't find it interesting. I did History at O level and also found that dull, key words come back to me, Metternich, Bismarck, corn laws, congress of somewhere or other(Vienna?), I couldn't be bothered to memorise it. I was building lots of tank and aircraft models at the time, used to read the blurb about them in the instructions. When I had my mock I ignored the set parts and answered the stuff on WW2 which we hadn't done. My history teacher (where are you now Mrs Argent, I quite liked you) did her 'raving nanar'. She was furious and tore me off a strip for about 30 minutes.
I did the same on the real O level exam and got a C grade, just a few key facts with general filling out around it. I left as soon as I had done my exams so didn't see my history teacher again, got the results posted through my letterbox (same as the English the year before).
I think half my trouble was when we came to choose what O levels we wanted to do, my list got torn up in front of me because they thought I wanted a lazy time (probably true). I wanted to be a mechanical engineering draftsman so I wanted to do technical drawing, art and metalwork. I was allowed to do TD, the rest were barred to me and I was given a list of what I would do. I seem to recall asking why they were called options?
I ended up getting on to the evening part of the Ford's apprentices' practical sessions at the local college one evening a week with my mate. You needed a letter from the headmaster to attend which my dad sorted for me (not sure how, but the headmaster didn't know about it). Load of yobbos they were, but I enjoyed that, playing with all the machinery etc. and I did art after school.
For the after school art I was double entered (not as good as it sounds) for CSE and O level by the art teacher. Got a 1 and a C for those. Got my Maths, Geography, Physics and TD O levels, failed my Chemistry and Eng Lit as mentioned previously.
I was asked to do a new O level exam called Graphical Communication by the TD teacher as a trial so did all the coursework in my own time. As the time approached it turned out the exam was at the same time as the TD and although my teachers asked if they could let me do it afterwards with supervision I was told this was refused by the exam board so that got dropped.
Out of all the above the stuff I actually use in day to day work is the TD, maths and geography. Who'd have though map references would ever come in useful? ____________________ Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Posted: 09:35 - 18 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: |
It's unfair if you have a school that has significantly upped its game recently, got a shit-hot teacher etc. It's also unfair if you have a very gifted pupil in a crap school. |
Well this is the crux of the problem
Most shit schools will still have a collection of reasonably capable students. All those students will have been passed over and marked down by the algorithm just because they were at a shit school.
What amazes me is that such a thing were allowed to happen. Somebody somewhere will have been tasked with creating the code to perform the analysis and calculations, and the results appear to be no better than a C-grade programming project from a first year uni student. "Add a lower weighting to schools with lower average grades". At that point, it is obvious that someone should then ask, "But what do we do about top performing students in the schools that are weighted down?" It's such a blindingly obvious question, it simply can't have been overlooked by accident.
At the very least, I think it's pretty clear that no professional statistician, data scientist or academic anywhere in the country was consulted during all of this. I guess this is what happens when you have the likes of Michael Gove telling the nation, "We've had enough of experts."
Considering we were once proud hosts to the likes of Bletchley Park, cracking the enigma code, etc, this weeks failure is just another sad indictment of the state of UK governance (or its lack and deliberate destruction thereof). |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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Lord Percy |
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Lord Percy World Chat Champion
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Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon Super Spammer
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
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Posted: 13:21 - 18 Aug 2020 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | stinkwheel wrote: |
Of course there is a lot of bawwing. People think (probably correctly) that if they baww loud enough, they will get a higher exam grade. |
And. Here. We. Go. |
Isn't this missing the point somewhat? The point is that kids with wealthy parents are more likely to get higher grades every year as it is, and the algorithm applied this year merely exacerbated the situation.
As an aside, notice how virtually everybody shown protesting, burning exam results etc in the media was either a soap-dodger, a lesbian stereotype or BAME. Clever media in doing this because as a nation we care less about people in those groups than we do nice, cute, clean-cut white kids... ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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Polarbear Super Spammer
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 252 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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