Please help! Hackney council notice of enforcement

[TravisBickle]

I sold a car in June 2019 and around October/November I started receiving multiple speeding tickets, DVLA threatening to take me to court for car being seen with no tax, bus lane tickets, no right turn tickets etc. from various organisations including a number of London Borough Councils, TFL, DVLA and the Police.

It appears the V5 got lost in the post and I was never removed as the registered keeper.

After many months of hard work, appealing every ticket and providing as much information as possible I managed to get them all cancelled except one - Hackney Council for a prohibited turn. They rejected my appeal on the grounds of lack of supporting evidence and gave me a charge certificate. I wrote to them again supplying further evidence and documentation from the Police and DVLA, they never wrote back, I never paid the fine and forgot all about it. Next thing I know I get a notice of enforcement letter from a company called Newlyn saying a court judgement has been made against me, I have failed to pay and I now have to pay them £278 to settle the debt. They're threatening to remove goods from the house.

I had absolutely no knowledge of this supposed court judgement that took place and was not given the opportunity to dispute it or attend court. Just get this letter out of the blue saying a judgement has been made and I have to pay the enforcement company / bailiffs.

I rung Newlyn expecting them to be sympathetic, I was very polite but all I got was a shitty attitude from the bloke on the phone saying I have to pay or they'll remove goods. Tough shit basically.

Do I have any options at this point or do I just have to stomach the £278 for someone else's actions?
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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[Zen Dog]

I'm not giving you any legal advice because this can be a very murky area. What I will say is don't sign anything, and don't agree anything with these debt collectors until you're sure of your legal position.

I have (sadly, through an old housemate) had some dealings with bailiffs coming round, and in some circumstances, it can be the case that as you have signed nothing with the debt collectors, and have no legal agreement with them, they have no legal hold on you, and you can tell them where to go.

Read up on your rights in this area. Debt collectors rely in many cases in people not understanding their rights, and what debt collection agencies can and cannot do.

For example, I answered the door to one and went off to find my housemate. As I hadn't locked the door, the bailiff walked right in behind me. This was legal.

What I can tell you is at this point, it probably doesn't matter whether you had the car at the time, or were actually liable for these charges. That time has passed. Now you've just got to deal with the consequences.
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[Polarbear]

^^^What he said^^^

Especially the bit about knowing what they can or cannot do.

My son, many years ago got into debt, ignored it and we had bailiffs/debt collectors round. They said even though it was his debt, it was against the address (my house) so they were within their rights to remove anything I couldn't prove was bought by me.

Citizens Advice Bureau?
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[P.]

Sadly you posted a V5 rather than doing it online.

I have got off multiple court appearances after selling bikes (I used to go through 2 a month, maybe more... boredom) by using;

[TravisBickle]

Thanks guys.

[TravisBickle]

I posted the same thread on Moneysavingexpert and someone on there said they don't need a trial, once the council have decided to refuse my appeal there is no further recourse on my side and you get no opportunity to plead your case in court either by post or by person. Doesn't sound right but that certainly appears to be the case as I had no court paperwork regarding it whatsoever, just the charge certificate which I replied to by post and then nothing until months later I get a bailiff letter.
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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[Zen Dog]

[TravisBickle]

[Zen Dog]

[stinkwheel]

So HAS there actually been a court judgement?

Because there is a fairly big paper trail missing here if you were not informed about the court action, nor about the jusdgement.

So are they actually spinning you a line of bullshit? First off I'd want to know where and when this judgement took place. Then I'd want to confirm that with the court itself and have sight of the documentation associated with the case because you should have received a summons. You should also have received a payment notice from the court before baliffs got involved.

Courts will sit and rubber stamp hundreds of uncontested judgements of this type but there is still a procedure to follow. A summons should have been sent to either your current address, registered address or last known address. If it wasn't, you can apply to have the judgement set aside (if a judgement has actually been made and the recovery company aren't having you on).

What they are referring to is CCJ which will fuck up your credit rating too.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

Does the supposed charge notice have a case reference and an originating court location? You need an independent source of information, i.e. the courts to verify it's a real charge.

I'm pretty sure you can still file to dispute the charge if there's been some irregularity in procedure. I don't think even councils can go straight from fine to charge in one step.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

[MCN]

Tell the bastirts to do one.

Or better Ignore the fuq out of it until you get a court date.

Many Dept. Collection Agents are ex cons or other 'hardmen' Security types.

Criminal Underworld run these things.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[P.]

The horse may have bolted, but if they are happy to prove the vehicle was in fact signed over before those dates, send that to Hackney explaining you did not own the car, here's proof, GG.

Hackney are trash in general. Out of all the boroughs we deal with, Hackney are the most incompetent retards.

[Easy-X]

It's a general thing with unwieldy bureaucracies, once you end up going down one track it's very hard to stop or switch direction. Very much like a train that's free to board but you have to pay increasingly more money to get off at each station.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[weasley]

Is there any option for a counter-claim? Seek damages for the financial and emotional consequences of the council's incompetence and negligence?
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[steve the grease]

First thing to do if you are sure you have the paperwork to cover it all is to arrange a meeting with your Councillor, the guy who represents you on the Council. ( you get to not bother to vote for him every 4 years or so) If you can get him to look over your documentation and get him to agree that its pretty obvious that the Council are being stupid there is a chance that he could kick some arse and get them to back off.
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All the above is my personal opinion, you can see my lips move, but I'm talking out of my arse.
I've been riding, and fixing , bikes for 50 years, in that time the more I learn, the less I am absolutely sure of.....

[TravisBickle]

Guys thanks so much for your input!!! I'm really sorry I've been off the radar for a couple of weeks it looks really ungrateful of me not to reply to all your helpful input.

Ok so I'm about 80 to 90% sure I haven't received any paperwork from the courts about a hearing or judgement. I called this company Newlyn and they spouted out exact dates etc. when notices were given and judgment made and they're pretty convincing that they have court authority.

I'm not the MOST efficient person at opening my mail but it does generally all get opened eventually (usually in one bulk load like once a month :-/ doesn't look good on my part at this point does it!!!).

Paperwork I have to hand is:

1) 21/11/2019 penalty charge notice from Hackney

2) 02/12/2019 notice of rejection of representation from Hackney

3) 07/01/2020 charge certificate from Hackney

4) 03/09/2020 notice of enforcement from Newlyn

That's it. Nothing between January and September. Nothing about a court hearing or a judgement being ruled. Nothing! Like I said I'm not 100% positive some of the mail hasn't gone missing but I'm pretty sure there would have been SOMETHING in my possession between January and September as there must have been multiple letters saying a court hearing has been scheduled, given opportunity to make representation, judgement being made in my absence, official court paperwork or something like that but got nothing.

What I've actually done now is followed the instructions on the notice of rejection of representation to appeal it on londontribunals.gov.uk although they say it has to be submitted with 28 days and it's now 294 days (LOL) it still let me lodge the application and give an explanation as to why the application has been filed late. Seems to me is if a judgement had been made the website wouldn't even have let me submit an appeal??? So I filled it out and made an apology for my lateness explaining this one fell through the cracks as I have been inundated dozens and dozens with charges and fines from various different authorities and organisations and they've all been appealed and accepted except this one. Hopefully they will take pity on me as it's no exaggeration to say I'm actually a victim of someone else's criminal activity here. I've also emailed Newlyn saying I've lodged an appeal in the hope the judgement (if one exists) will be overturned.

Here is both sides of the letter from Newlyn:

https://i.ibb.co/98Xbt4J/CCI21092020-00003.png
https://i.ibb.co/r3FzQk2/CCI21092020-00004.png
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2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[Nobby the Bastard]

They haven't been to court. they are trying to scare you.

It will probably work.

Just move house and sell the vehicle.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[TravisBickle]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Easy-X]

Interesting

Just my opinion but that paper is worthless. All it says is that you owe the council money for something and they're toddling along to enforce it. They're perfectly entitled to do so either under contract from the council or buy purchasing the debt. What they can't do is legally enforce it without evidence of the associated Warrant of Control.

Thing is: again, lots of steps have been missed here. A court hearing to assess your ability to pay for example.

If you get contacted by these Newlyn ppl again I'd politely request a reference for the court case and a copy of the Warrant of Control. If they can't at least provide the latter then it's probably worth contacting the police. Implying they have one but unable to provide it is arguably fraud.

Assume everything they say is a lie unless they have the paperwork to back it up.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[hellkat]

[stinkwheel]

It's illegal to issue a warrant of control without a judgement. It goes CCJ, then if you fail to pay up for the CCJ, they can THEN apply for a warrant of control to seize goods. You should have had a summons before a court case then a noticeof the judgement after it.

The presence of said warrant is essential to proceedings. No warrant, no entry, call 999.

Note it is not unheard of for baliffs to fake one. It would come on court headed paper if it is genuine because it is issued by the court, not the debt recovery company. If they do try it on, you just won because all bets are then off and the "debt" is likely to be cancelled.

It would appear there is an official register of judgements. Plug your details in here and see if you come up. Costs £6. Might unearth any other issues you are unaware of too?

https://www.trustonline.org.uk/
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[MCN]