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British built 250 Announced

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smokin joe
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: British built 250 Announced Reply with quote

For a mere 28k one of these little beauties could be yours. Think I'll pass myself -

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/langen-motorcycles-two-stroke/?utm_source=OracleResponsys&utm_medium=email&utm_content=MCN_news&utm_campaign=MCN-E-B-200918-News2-ENG-NEW&email_hash=766c5384721928c9f84bc96d03052ccb
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

£28k plus VAT!!!!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

So cheaper than a basket case 250LC then?
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Canít read article Rolling Eyes , big blank over the screen unless I accept all thier cookies Evil or Very Mad .
Not going to Middle Finger
£ 28k+ Err I recon even without looking, Iíll pass on that, and Iím a 250 fan.

I was all excited when I read the thread title Crying or Very sad
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

EFI 2-stroke? Doesn't seem right to me Sad
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 17:26 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The production volume loophole might be the secret here. That's if this bike exists at all (I don't find MCN all that credible Rolling Eyes ) Is it really an EFI 2-stroke? How does MCN even "know", given that they haven't seen it yet.

Now for my pyramid of "ifs"... Below a certain production volume (I don't know what the threshold is), the Caterham exemption applies, for emissions testing purposes. In other words, if a manufacturer (e.g. Caterham) makes very few units of a particular model per year, it doesn't have to comply with whatever the applicable emissions standards are. If that's the case, and they can only make, say, 100 units, then they will have to try to recover all of their R&D costs in just 100 sales. At £28000 per bike, that would amount to £2.8 million, which isn't a lot. There will always be someone who will want something just because it's a limited edition product. Whether that product is any good, whether it really does produce that much power, etc. remains to be seen.
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struan80
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PostPosted: 20:34 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Considering a Ford Focus is 20 odd grand with no extras, I think this for a two-stroke is very good value considering it is a limited production motorcycle.

Just ignore me I'm trying to convince myself that an H2 is a sensible option.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A Jawa or CZ 250 smoker with its single Jikov carb and drum brakes for £280 + vat would suit me better Very Happy
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 19 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

pepperami wrote:
A Jawa or CZ 250 smoker with its single Jikov carb and drum brakes for £280 + vat would suit me better Very Happy

"A"? Have 8 dozen.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 03:14 - 20 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
The production volume loophole might be the secret here. That's if this bike exists at all (I don't find MCN all that credible Rolling Eyes ) Is it really an EFI 2-stroke? How does MCN even "know", given that they haven't seen it yet.

Now for my pyramid of "ifs"... Below a certain production volume (I don't know what the threshold is), the Caterham exemption applies, for emissions testing purposes. In other words, if a manufacturer (e.g. Caterham) makes very few units of a particular model per year, it doesn't have to comply with whatever the applicable emissions standards are. If that's the case, and they can only make, say, 100 units, then they will have to try to recover all of their R&D costs in just 100 sales. At £28000 per bike, that would amount to £2.8 million, which isn't a lot. There will always be someone who will want something just because it's a limited edition product. Whether that product is any good, whether it really does produce that much power, etc. remains to be seen.


The OP's link says that the bike meets UK emissions regulations, Langen's website says limited run of 100 machines which suggests that they are meeting the emissions non standards for a limited run, as you suggest.
Perhaps a small tweak here or there and you then have another model and a nother limited run and another tweak equals another run. Small tweaks and changing model names, presumably, would help spread R&D costs. I wonder how little you have to change from the original run to qualify for another limited run?
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yen_powell
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PostPosted: 07:54 - 20 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
I wonder how little you have to change from the original run to qualify for another limited run?
Are 'Go Faster Stripes' still a thing?
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Kris
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PostPosted: 07:43 - 21 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Itíll have around 80bhp and weigh a maximum of 115kg and be fitted with top-line running gear, suspension, brakes etc. Most importantly, it will sound and smell amazing.


That will be a very intense riding experience, count me in Mr. Green
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 21 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Now for my pyramid of "ifs"... Below a certain production volume (I don't know what the threshold is), the Caterham exemption applies, for emissions testing purposes...


https://uk.motor1.com/news/345284/caterham-exempt-wltp-uk/

Not an exemption specifically for Caterham but they utilise the IVA (individual vehicle approval) scheme for small manufacturers making limited run models. Even so, the article talks about the WLTP emissions replacing the NEDC that VW so kindly fucked up for everyone. And on top of that Caterham still need to tweak / limit sales that are exported.

Not that any of the above matters as motorcycles are covered by the MSVA (motorcycle single vehicle approval) Wink

TBH the inspection manual is a bit vague in the emissions area:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/motorcycle-single-vehicle-approval-inspection-manual

But if I read it correctly the engine's CO2 level is only tested at a very basic level. I suspect that yes, they're "exploiting" the kit-built / limited production run testing, yes the bike is road-legal but it doesn't necessarily follow they're going as far as say EURO 3 compliance so I doubt you could enter the ULEZ without paying the charge; probably not exporting it either.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:04 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Confirmed by The Workshop, definitely going down the MSVA route:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hvPmCyBAFOk
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Not an exemption specifically for Caterham but they utilise the IVA (individual vehicle approval) scheme for small manufacturers making limited run models.


Bhud wrote:
In other words, if a manufacturer (e.g. Caterham) makes very few units of a particular model per year, it doesn't have to comply with whatever the applicable emissions standards are.


Shortly after I posted, a quick Google search showed that Caterham had been putting its cars through single vehicle approval, as has just been "revealed". No great depth of research needed. It was obvious.

So no, I don't need The Workshop to confirm anything for me. Besides which, it's not a channel I look up to as an authoritative source of information. It was obvious that Langen would have been using the low production volume loophole to get around the need to meet Euro emissions testing. Plain obvious, which is why I pointed it out.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought people might be interested in the mechanics of the thing, my mistake, sorry.

And The Workshop had a letter direct from Langens, again apologies for not being a sound source.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I doubt you could enter the ULEZ without paying the charge; probably not exporting it either.


As fun as it sounds, I doubt the average ULEZ motorcycle commuter is splashing out £28k+VAT for a two fiddy.

And those that can justify the purchase price won't be put off in the slightest by the ULEZ charge.

Would be nice to be that rich though Laughing
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I thought people might be interested in the mechanics of the thing, my mistake, sorry.

And The Workshop had a letter direct from Langens, again apologies for not being a sound source.


No need to apologise to me dude. I felt it necessary to write in strong terms in order that someone doesn't get their source of narcissistic supply from me here. A lot of people like that on Youtube and they get a little rush seeing their name up in lights here if you imply they have some sort of notoriety or importance outside of their Youtube fanbase. It's not personal and I apologise if I caused offence to you, but I felt there was no way but to be unequivocal.lest this becomes yet another source of narcissistic supply someone can pretend to have not seen/read.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too bad they slapped a ridiculous price tag on it because of all the carbon fiber and gold leafing so it's probably just going to be a collectors thing. I do wonder if they will do what CCM are doing and come out with different versions every few years so they can sell more. At least at £10k a CCM is sort of affordable for the average guy though.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

£28k for a low volume hand built UK bike with Ohlins / Ktech seems quite cheap to me.

The Norton V4ss was sold out at £44k...
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 28 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
No need to apologise to me dude. I felt it necessary to write in strong terms in order that someone doesn't get their source of narcissistic supply from me here. A lot of people like that on Youtube and they get a little rush seeing their name up in lights here if you imply they have some sort of notoriety or importance outside of their Youtube fanbase. It's not personal and I apologise if I caused offence to you, but I felt there was no way but to be unequivocal.lest this becomes yet another source of narcissistic supply someone can pretend to have not seen/read.


Well there's a certain aspect of:

https://i.imgflip.com/4gkd6l.jpg

But very few channels go into the nitty gritty of things like "cheating" with MSVA instead it's just "small production run" hand waving.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 01:00 - 29 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
£28k for a low volume hand built UK bike with Ohlins / Ktech seems quite cheap to me.

The Norton V4ss was sold out at £44k...


Hardly comparable stablemates though. Laughing
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Kris
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PostPosted: 07:49 - 29 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:


Hardly comparable stablemates though. Laughing


Yeah I agree, the Norton was an overpriced lump of unreliable shite.

Still, hand-built exclusivity sells - which was my point.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:33 - 29 Sep 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

At what point does it become economical to create/commission your own custom bike Thinking
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