Power Commander / other options?

[TravisBickle]

Hi guys hoping for some advice here.

So I got a full exhaust system from Black Widow so that's the downpipes through to the end can. Existing cat replaced with a straight-through system. Also got a K&N air filter so I'm thinking it's probably running leaner than what would be ideal so need a mapping fix right?

Power Commanders seem to be the go-to product from what I've heard so looked on their website for a dealer but am struggling to make any progress.

Closest dealer to me is HM Racing in Edenbridge. I actually popped in there to speak to someone just after lockdown had been lifted and a lot of places were still only partially operating. They seemed a bit cagey, wouldn't commit to anything, saying they "don't really do road bikes any more". I called again today to see if anything had changed, spoke to a friendly chap who said they can do it but because it's a road bike they need it for 2-3 days (seems odd???!!!) he took my number and promised to call me back and I've heard nothing so far.

Second closest dealer Laguna in Ashford. My son's 18yo friend works in there part time (Saturdays only) so might be worth speaking to a fulltime member of staff before ruling them out completely but according to my son's friend they no longer have a dyno so wouldn't be able to set it up even if they supplied and fitted it. I tried to call them today to confirm this but nobody in the service department was available so might try again tomorrow.

Third closest dealer to me is Vanguard Motorsport in Uckfield. Tried calling them earlier well within normal trading hours and it rang off to a mobile phone voicemail???!!! IIRC I tried to call them after I was turned away from HM Racing in Edenbridge and the same thing happened then...

Could look at going further afield but would rather stay local if I can!

Has anyone else had the same issues I have had trying to get hold of a Dynojet centre?

Incidentally I was in Laguna Maidstone earlier to have an ABS issue looked at and I was talking to them about it, they suggested a product they could sell me called 'Rapid Bike Evo' (£376 supplied but not fitted as apparently it's plug-and-play) which allegedly is the same as a Power Commander but doesn't need to be dyno-tuned if you use another one of their products called 'My Tuning Bike' (an extra £151) as it automatically retunes the mapping every 200 miles based on the way you've been riding over the past 200 miles. Apparently this taps into the oxygen sensor but I'm not sure I still have an oxygen sensor as I said I had the whole exhaust system replaced from the downpipes which removed a sort of butterfly valve that was in there from the factory so not sure whether this would work on my bike now???

Also seems a bit sus not needing to be dyno-tuned.

Your thoughts please guys?

Thanks!
____________________
2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[xX-Alex-Xx]

You don’t “need” to tune a power commander either. Although they have the same addon module for auto tuning, you can download maps from their website which will suit your bike 97% .... a custom tune is only needed when you want every last HP out the system.
____________________
DILLIGAF

[TravisBickle]

[TravisBickle]

So I'm guessing you either have the auto tune OR a custom tune, right? I'm guessing you don't go have it custom tuned and then have the addon bit that tunes it as you go along as well?
____________________
2007 Yamaha FZ1 S Fazer
2021 Honda CMX500 Rebel S
2016 Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport

[xX-Alex-Xx]

No, you just download a premade fuel map from the website and load it with your laptop. Job done.
____________________
DILLIGAF

[wr6133]

Buy a Power Commander and fit it yourself. Used ones can be a bargain, I just bought one for my Enfield for £120.

It will have a "canned" map for your bike. If you check their website you may even find a canned map for your bike with similar mods. If you can operate a windows PC you can swap maps around yourself. If you really want to tinker you can even tweak the maps yourself, it's pretty simple it's just a table showing values at a given RPM and throttle position, the values relate to the amount of fuel above or below stock. Obviously DIY farting around with the values will not be anywhere near as effective as a bloke with a dyno

Properly tuning it, either take it to a place with a Dyno or get the autotune module. I plan to get an autotune next year but thats because I plan to in stages pretty much change everything in the engine so rather than fork out for multiple dyno sessions an autotune seems better value.

Just a pipe and filter though you will probably be fine with a canned map.

If you go used try to get one that does ignition as well as fueling. The earlier PCV's only did fuel and you have to buy another module to play with ignition. Newer ones do both from the 1 module.

[MarJay]

I wouldn't touch a power commander or remap without a dyno setup, the results are just too variable.

You can lose more power than you think even if the bike the map is from is an identical model, year etc with the same exhaust. Ask me how I know.

It's impossible to tell if a bike has improved with a map or not, and even if you're not going for maximum power, the fine throttle response and fuelling you get from a map can only really come from a dyno setup.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[MarJay]

Have you asked T3 racing? They specialise in Triumphs but I have known Tony to say that he'll do other bikes if need be. He might even be able to remap your ECU without putting a Power Commander on there.

The remaps tend to make the throttle response very abrupt, my Street Triple has got a lot of 'get up and go' but the fuelling is spot on and it feels fantastic to ride.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Easy-X]

There's a bike dyno place in Maidenhead. Might be a bit of a trek for you though.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[MarJay]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[MarJay]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[MarJay]

[TravisBickle]

[Johnnythefox]

Can you not keep the bikes original map stored and reflash the ECU between that and any new map allowing a comparison to be made?

[MarJay]

[Kris]

I don't trust Lagunas so I've travelled to two other places instead in the past:

PDQ (Maidenhead)

Steve Jordan motorcycles (near Boxhill)

Both get a thumbs up from me.
____________________
NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
www.prisonplanet.com

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[A100man]

Good lord - what a palaver.
____________________
Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[wr6133]

This is all a PCV map is

Fuel, all values are percentages over stock. So if you changed all of those to zero it would be running stock mapping (with no adjustments from the Lambda because you have circumvented it)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50494225562_d677e0a1e7_o.png

and same for ignition
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50494067451_7dc987c81c_o.png

Now obviously if you are going to muck about with that at home you are guessing, similar to DIY playing with a carb (just with far more adjustment points). You can probably get rid of annoying emissions related flatspots but any power gains will be accidental.

A dyno though will measure the AFR and the software will generate trim values (the adjustments) at the given RPM and throttle openings to give the AFR that has been set, that AFR can be different at different RPM's, throttle openings and gears allowing a map to be made that can tailor to economy, performance or even both. The autotune works this way too (and can adjust "live" or not depending on what you want). If you want performance gains and have done the engine work to get them, then the AT or a Dyno is the only way you will see those gains. If you have a pipe and filter and just want to lose the snatchy fueling created by emissions legislation/testing then bollocks to spending 3/400 quid on dyno time or an AT, that's alot of money for a minuscule amount of power that you wont notice. I'm cynical so I'd also say keep in mind Dyno operators want to make a living so they are going to trash talk AT's and canned maps (and with canned maps I mean from the DJ website or known specialists for a given bike, not bloke on internet).

There are further things the PCV can do, most notable is you can extend the rev limiter, great way to blow up your motor

[MarJay]