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bhinso
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Free School Meals Reply with quote
Surprising this hasn't been brought up, as it's worth a discussion.

Me I'm unsure. I get all the 'Think of the Children' and all that. I don't think anyone on this forum would intentionally see kids starve.

My worry is that, like many aspects of welfare, it's open to abuse. I hear from people working in ASDA about blokes getting violent when they can't buy alcohol with food credits.

It's a bit like giving to charity, can you really be 100% sure that the money is going to good causes? Or is there a chance it is only going to exacerbate the original problem?
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:41 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I see it as a bit like when Live Aid first started and people were sending truckloads of food to Africa to feed the starving people...

Then they wised up and realised there were better and more effective ways of helping because a lack of food wasn't the underlying problem. Simply feeding people didn't fix anything, there were just as many hungry people the next day.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 22:42 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's not free school meals if its half-term.

It's free meals for kids whose parents are not parenting properly.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's just another party political point and a majority government shouldn't be U-turning. Local authorities already have additional funding plus reserves. Also I find it hard to believe there are children in the UK who are starving.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:49 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
panrider_uk wrote:
It's not free school meals if its half-term.

It's free meals for kids whose parents are not parenting properly.


And that's my thought.

I know there are people here who believe people should be helped, end of. OK your choice.

Having kids is a commitment. I had 3, fcuking expensive little rug rats. My youngest is 27 ans still costs me.

I paid every penny they have cost. No one else had to help me. Is it wrong to think if you can't afford kids, don't shag. Sadly though it seems it's a ;HUMAN RIGHT' to expect everyone else to pay for your results of a quick porking.

Saying that, I of course dont want any kid going hungry. Pity the parents don't seem to care.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 26 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Now we need Percy or Ribenapidgeon to tell us the otherside.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:33 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It sounds like a good idea but how will it be implemented?

Vouchers, cash card, food parcel? That last one is just a scam: take the funding buy a load of useless shit. Where the corruption is - school management, suppliers, council - I couldn't say but the efforts earlier in the year were clearly bent.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Many valid points here, however it doesn't alter the fact that some kids go hungry because their parents can't feed them properly. This isn't the fault of the children and in many cases it isn't the fault of the parents either. Of course there will be abusers of the system, but again abuse of benefit systems isn't restricted to the poor. Think of MPs expenses...

For me this issue highlights two things.

1. That Cummings and Boris aren't as clever as they think they are. They have completely misjudged public opinion, to the extent that not spending an extra 20 million a week during school holidays may make the difference between them winning and losing the next general election.

2. Whoever wrote the list of reasons not to vote for it is one spiteful, childish, evil fucker.

I find it funny that Tory MPs are lining up to distance themselves from it now in order to save some credibility with their constituents. I also find it funny that the Labour Party are sitting back and watching the country turn on the Government. For once I think Labour is doing the right thing because by sitting back it avoids the distraction of Right Wing accusations of making capital out of someone else's misfortune.
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panrider_uk
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PostPosted: 10:05 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why is it not the fault of the parents?

Ok, some may have lost jobs due to Covid hysteria screwing their jobs up and benefits being delayed.

But anyone already on benefits? What's suddenly changed for them this year that they can't feed their kids?

Have Sky subscriptions gone up?
Certainly smoking is a very expensive hobby these days with not being able to do the cross channel fags and booze runs.

If they can't afford to feed them then presumably they can't afford to clothe them and we'll be expected to pay for winter outfits for them all in a month or two?

Where does it end?
We can't have government policies being set by social media campaigning.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
Many valid points here, however it doesn't alter the fact that some kids go hungry because their parents can't feed them properly. This isn't the fault of the children and in many cases it isn't the fault of the parents either.


We have a system of social security in this country that is there to catch people in a safety net. That safety net, as far s I am aware, is altered depending on your dependants. ie, if you have kids you get more than if you don't have kids. Isn't that what it's for?

I absolutly have nothing against free school meals or even reinstating the bottle of milk we got as kids but surely it's not too much to expect parents to feed their kids themselves over the school holidays?

This, of course, is now nothing to do with kids but become a political football (well done Mr Rashford) to beat the Torys with.

As for politicians expenses,yes, they are as scummy as every other person with their snout in the public gravytrain but that's a different arguement.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
But anyone already on benefits? What's suddenly changed for them this year that they can't feed their kids?


This is the crux of the matter. Millions of people are worse off this year than they were last year because there is less work and therefore less money about. Loads of kids who get free school meals have parents in and out of low-paid jobs, who claim benefits but the benefits aren't enough on their own to keep pace with the drop in income.

There will always be some parents who choose fags before food, and these parents are at fault. This isn't the kid's fault however, and is easily solved by offering meals in school canteens rather than giving cash or vouchers.

Quote:
Where does it end?


It ends when people have jobs that pay enough to live on and they don't have to rely on benefits to survive.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
As for politicians expenses,yes, they are as scummy as every other person with their snout in the public gravytrain but that's a different arguement.


I think this goes to the heart of it because people don't like the fact that politicians are happy to claim thousands that they don't need, yet are also happy to deny ordinary people a few quid to eat.

I wouldn't be surprised if the bastards stop supporting businesses that offer to feed kids during the holidays. Hang on, a Tory MP has already suggested that...

One thing I find odd is the Government arguing that offering food during school holidays promotes an unhealthy reliance upon the State, yet is more than happy for people to take food from food banks and charitable donation. If it were genuinely concerned about self-reliance, it would make food banks and charity illegal...
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Now we need Percy or Ribenapidgeon to tell us the otherside.


Very Happy

Parents should obviously parent properly but kids have no say in the situation. The solution is either:

1. Take kids away from bad parents, but that costs even more.
2. Offer food vouchers for those who need/want/abuse the system.

Also the entire discussion completely overlooks the root(s) of the problem, which is:

1. British society is currently functioning in such a way that some parents cannot afford to feed their kids
2. British society is currently functioning in such a way that some parents choose to not feed their kids.

Both of those are a sad indictment of something which badly needs to be fixed. Sitting on the sidelines and pontificating about "oh how bad those parents must be" is not helping any more than food vouchers, but at least with food vouchers there are no hungry kids.

I think also it's a bit different this year as there are a whole lot of people going onto the 2/3rds furlough pay situation, which is a dire situation to be in if you're on minimum wage already.

Overall I think it's utterly crass for people to label parents as shirkers/irresponsible/alcoholics etc at a time like this. The benefits system has already been drastically cut over the past ten years. It's almost like some of you won't be truly happy until there's no system at all, you're that convinced that anyone who needs to use it is still doing it for all the wrong reasons.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
panrider_uk wrote:


But anyone already on benefits? What's suddenly changed for them this year that they can't feed their kids?

Have Sky subscriptions gone up?
Certainly smoking is a very expensive hobby these days with not being able to do the cross channel fags and booze runs.


You really do sound like the most naive Daily Mail reader when you say things like that.

Jobseeker's allowance i.e. "free money for fags and booze" is only a small part of the welfare budget.

Most people on benefits are in work. Their benefits come in the form of tax cuts and/or income top-ups for those who are demonstrably not earning enough to get by.

A little bit old now but this ONS page from 2016 shows pretty clearly... unemployment benefits makes up only 1% of the welfare budget: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/howisthewelfarebudgetspent/2016-03-16
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:


A little bit old now but this ONS page from 2016 shows pretty clearly... unemployment benefits makes up only 1% of the welfare budget: https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/articles/howisthewelfarebudgetspent/2016-03-16


It totally bugs me that pensions are listed as welfare.

People pay in throughout their lives to get a state pension. It's not a benefit, it's a paid for right. The fact the government do what is illegal in any other business and spend the pension payments rather than invest them to pay people when they get to retirement age is just disgusting.

Anyway, that's off topic.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Currently doing the FB rounds...

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doggone
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Isn't this only for half term anyway so finding five meals is going to be the final straw or starve them?
I would think a filling and nutritious meal could be created at home for under £1 if need be but £2 would be generous.

From a practical standpoint here we are very rural so not sure how these holiday period meals would actually be dished out, would they have to travel to school or get vouchers to go into town for it - that could take half a day and cost 5x the food.
Sounds like a fantastically inefficient option compared to heating some sausages and a tin of beans at home.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/122894903_1310081985994960_4578736811331543859_n.jpg


I'd imagine assessing and implementing that would cost more than feeding them.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
panrider_uk wrote:
But anyone already on benefits? What's suddenly changed for them this year that they can't feed their kids?


In a normal year low-income parents might have to feed their kids for at most six weeks through the summer, but usually just one or two weeks at a time through half term.

From mid March it was nigh on six and a half months that kids weren't in school. A very different prospect.

Add to that the fact that an awful lot of people lost 20% of their salary on furlough, and then add in those who ineligible for furlough and so either had income slashed to near nothing, or worse were made redundant.

I agree that in normal times we shouldn't be paying for food for children throughout the year, but things haven't improved much since March for many people, and if anything the job situation for most people is going to get much worse before it improves

There's a greater political issue at play for sure, and I agree that there should be an element of "if you can't afford children, don't have them", but none of that is the fault of the children in question.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 14:45 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
They have completely misjudged public opinion.

I don't think so. That would be the "public opinion" always immediately reported by the MSM without ever actually finding out what the silent majority think.

Lord Percy wrote:
Also the entire discussion completely overlooks the root(s) of the problem, which is:

1. British society is currently functioning in such a way that some parents cannot afford to feed their kids
2. British society is currently functioning in such a way that some parents choose to not feed their kids.

Both of those are a sad indictment of something which badly needs to be fixed.

Putting it like that makes it sound like the half-term streets are full of starving children, which is what Labour want you to think.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
If, for simplicity, we make the assumption that all parents will do the best for their kids what would be a more tangible benefit would be to fix the painfully slow bureaucracy around well, benefits.

A good chunk of "I can't feed my kids" is down to having a massive delay before you can get your hands on existing government assistance.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
c_dug wrote:


In a normal year low-income parents might have to feed their kids for at most six weeks through the summer, but usually just one or two weeks at a time through half term.

From mid March it was nigh on six and a half months that kids weren't in school. A very different prospect.

Add to that the fact that an awful lot of people lost 20% of their salary on furlough, and then add in those who ineligible for furlough and so either had income slashed to near nothing, or worse were made redundant.

I agree that in normal times we shouldn't be paying for food for children throughout the year, but things haven't improved much since March for many people, and if anything the job situation for most people is going to get much worse before it improves

There's a greater political issue at play for sure, and I agree that there should be an element of "if you can't afford children, don't have them", but none of that is the fault of the children in question.


There's a lot of sense in this post.

As to "if you can't afford children, don't have them", circumstances can and do change.

Also,

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
It's just another party political point and a majority government shouldn't be U-turning. Local authorities already have additional funding plus reserves. Also I find it hard to believe there are children in the UK who are starving.


Child poverty in the UK is a real thing.

https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/2020/06/22/fact-checking-claims-about-child-poverty/

I for one don't mind my tax pounds being spent on something like this.
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arry
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:

Child poverty in the UK is a real thing.

https://www.childrenscommissioner.gov.uk/2020/06/22/fact-checking-claims-about-child-poverty/

I for one don't mind my tax pounds being spent on something like this.


I have to say I'm not averse to the idea either but the point around poverty in the UK is ridiculous, IMO. Relative / Absolute poverty and their definitions are one thing - actual, horrendous, despairing poverty in third world countries is quite another. Ask any one of the kids in the poorest parts of Africa / Asia if they'd like to swap places with a kid on a council estate in the midlands and see what their response is.

I've travelled a lot and seen what absolute poverty really looks like - and it ain't in the UK. That's not to say I want to see kids struggling to have a decent upbringing - but a reminder that however unfair you might think the UK's distribution of wealth is, the poor a hell of a lot better off here than they are elsewhere in the world without question.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 16:55 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
...but a reminder that however unfair you might think the UK's distribution of wealth is, the poor a hell of a lot better off here than they are elsewhere in the world without question.


Very true. However, in the 6th richest country in the world (or whatever we are...), you wouldn't expect anybody to have to go without a hot meal, a roof over their head, basic healthcare etc. The fact that comparatively speaking our kids aren't poor is a red herring IMO.

Comparative poverty is a bizarre concept. By its definition I am in poverty because my telly is smaller than most I see on the estate when I walk the dog at night. On the other hand, if I choose to stop off for a pint on my way back I can without worrying about the £4.25, whereas many on the estate probably can't...
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dynax
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another contributor to poverty is personal finance, just about anything can be bought on credit, and quite often it is buy now pay later and it soon adds up and it would lead to more outgoings than incomings, so many have lost income from this pandemic, it's not hard to see that it is the kids that suffer in the end.
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