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arry
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:

Very true. However, in the 6th richest country in the world (or whatever we are...), you wouldn't expect anybody to have to go without a hot meal, a roof over their head, basic healthcare etc. The fact that comparatively speaking our kids aren't poor is a red herring IMO.


I take on board your point but I don't agree; the use of the word poverty against the discussion is deliberate enough if you ask me. It is for effect - paints the picture nicely.

Notwithstanding that I do agree that in a country such as this you shouldn't really expect people to be without a meal. My sensible head says I wonder how many of them actually are? I am from a very poor background and my siblings have happily pumped out kids on welfare - best part of a football team's worth, and the kids they've had are busy having kids on welfare too. Not a single one of them is starving. Not anywhere near it.

I'm not saying that these impoverished kids that might go without don't exist, but I'd like to really understand WHERE they are so that we can understand the demographic we're talking about. That's important as the Tories seem to be suggesting that they voted it down as they didn't feel it would make any difference to the target audience, but it's difficult to understand whether that's a valid argument.
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TaffyTDM
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PostPosted: 18:16 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im really confused with this one and where my ranting belongs.

On the one hand, i saw an emotionally hysterical female, BAME, MP, loosing the plot in the debating chamber, and later in a 121 with the news caster declare that its the responsibility of the state to sort this, with no mention of parents, personal irresponsibility at all. This made me angry as, although i dont believe the dole is an awesome lifestyle people really look to be on, there is an undercurrent in society of take take take which pervades everywhere and makes this country, under the surface, something i hate. That the same vitriol is directed at the state by the same people when HMG interfere with other aspects of their lives isnt lost on me.

On the other hand the sight of the out of touch self serving twats making their principled opinion (which i do agree with) that enough help is being given grates massivly and is lost when they fuck off to their private bar for the cheapest, and best quality steak, chips and a pint for 20 miles in ang direction.

Hopefully there is a middle ground to be found, lest we continue to have a crisis of childhood obesity and starvation all at the same time

Did all the dailymail sadfaces really not think when they were smugly smashing the shit out of the half price thing not think where the money is coming from and who would be expected to fix it? And if they did, but didnt give grafters a second thought, should they be entitled to unchallenged sympathy now?
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

My local council has bunged £11 parents per eligible child (£2.20 per dinner) my gripe is that Universal Credit was increased by £20 per week (£1000 a year) until next April.


My local Labour supporting newspaper is making much out of the situation including listing all local businesses which are helping 'fill the littles ones rumbling tummies' many of them offering a free child meal when you buy an adult meal wtf
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was prompted by this to go online and searching my local Labour councils website i found their report on Child poverty, turns out that the most deprived wards in Plymouth have the most parents using tobacco and alcohol. That's not me being cruel, me being a Tory, me not giving a shit, it is the Labour councils very own findings.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
My local council has bunged £11 parents per eligible child (£2.20 per dinner) my gripe is that Universal Credit was increased by £20 per week (£1000 a year) until next April.


My local Labour supporting newspaper is making much out of the situation including listing all local businesses which are helping 'fill the littles ones rumbling tummies' many of them offering a free child meal when you buy an adult meal wtf


£1k a year is still fuck all when you are getting fuck all.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 19:10 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A grand might just mean you had eleven quid for half term dinners though.
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

By the sound of it we are all saying the same thing - if a kid is genuinely hungry then that kid should be fed. This should be done by the parents/carers first, but if they genuinely cannot afford to do it properly, then the State should provide the safety net.

Where we differ is in our varying definitions of 'genuine'... Very Happy
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnnythefox wrote:
A grand might just mean you had eleven quid for half term dinners though.


£2 a day isn't going to feed 4 kids very well.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
but if they genuinely cannot afford to do it properly, then the State should provide the safety net.

Where we differ is in our varying definitions of 'genuine'... Very Happy

UK local councils have total reserves of £2 billion stashed "for emergencies," plus the Covid-19 top-ups already supplied by the State. They should be resourcing their social services at this time of crisis instead of expecting the government to continually send more cash.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best way of giving out free school meals in the holidays would be as hot meals dished up and ready to eat.

To identify those who're in genuine need of help, families who need free school meals in the holidays are quite likely to be known by food banks and teachers will have a good idea of which kids are being sent to school unfed and or are not being fed properly in the holidays.

Add in something about being referred to social services and and you'd have a system that means kids aren't go unfed.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody seems to address the issues of who is supposed to be cooking and serving these meals.

I'm fairly sure the people that work in schools look forwards to half term for a break. Should these people be told they have to go into work out of contracted terms?

I have known a few people that have worked in school canteens over the years and they have had children of school age themselves and need to have the time off when their children have the time off. The costs of childcare wouldn't make going into work viable in half term.

Just a thought.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Johnnythefox wrote:
A grand might just mean you had eleven quid for half term dinners though.


£2 a day isn't going to feed 4 kids very well.


The 'campaign' isn't for food for a day, it's for lunches during the school holiday.

4 kids gives you £44 if you live here in Plymouth free from the council to buy them 5 lunches each at £2,20 per lunch, people can't make a lunch for four kids for £8.80?

and a grand extra for the year should still more than cover £44 for half term.


Last edited by Johnnythefox on 22:57 - 27 Oct 2020; edited 1 time in total
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Nobody seems to address the issues of who is supposed to be cooking and serving these meals.

I'm fairly sure the people that work in schools look forwards to half term for a break. Should these people be told they have to go into work out of contracted terms?

I have known a few people that have worked in school canteens over the years and they have had children of school age themselves and need to have the time off when their children have the time off. The costs of childcare wouldn't make going into work viable in half term.

Just a thought.



Our council dedcided it was unsafe to just open schools as canteens plus of course transport costs for the deprived parents.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 27 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

the government should have gritted it's teeth and just paid out the cash but long term, education is the key. The left wing writer Jack Monroe (a female, Lbgt single parent) writes cookbooks with meals at 15-50p a head.
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:

£1k a year is still fuck all when you are getting fuck all.


As I ask again, who are these people and why's it happening to them?

Just 'checked in' on my nephew on Facebook to see what he's up to. 22 years old, 2 kids, council house in Clacton, fag in gob, beer in hand, playstation and telly set up, tattoos (bad ones mind LOL) up his arms, boy racer car out on front lawn. Not worked a day in his chuff so either the dole is more than enough to feed a family of 4 or he's running drugs?

Actually don't answer that question Laughing
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Actually don't answer that question


I think you just have... Laughing Laughing Laughing
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

So what we actually need then is not vouchers for meals, it's a Govt marketing campaign advising poor jobless types to retrain into county lines drug runners Laughing
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 12:37 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
So what we actually need then is not vouchers for meals, it's a Govt marketing campaign advising poor jobless types to retrain into county lines drug runners Laughing


Meal vouchers would indeed be the best idea.
Loads of supermarkets do a lunch special of a snack, a sandwich and a drink for around £3, they could probably do a deal with them where kids can go and get something similar with a voucher. It's not exactly hard to set up, the supply chain and staffing are all in place and pretty much every hard up area has a Tesco or Asda close by.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
arry wrote:
So what we actually need then is not vouchers for meals, it's a Govt marketing campaign advising poor jobless types to retrain into county lines drug runners Laughing


Meal vouchers would indeed be the best idea.
Loads of supermarkets do a lunch special of a snack, a sandwich and a drink for around £3, they could probably do a deal with them where kids can go and get something similar with a voucher. It's not exactly hard to set up, the supply chain and staffing are all in place and pretty much every hard up area has a Tesco or Asda close by.


That's a good shout. Ok, the 3 things meal deals might not be the best of nutrition but they will certainly stop hunger and as you say easy to set up. Thumbs Up
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Meal vouchers would indeed be the best idea.

Would hot meals would be a better idea than vouchers?
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Would hot meals would be a better idea than vouchers?

Posh kids do well on a packed lunch at school.

The poor kids can act posh.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Pjay wrote:
Meal vouchers would indeed be the best idea.

Would hot meals would be a better idea than vouchers?


As long as you don't get abuse of the voucher system, ie selling them at 50% face value to get money for booze, fags etc. vouchers are the way to go. We had them when I was a kid as I can remember going to the local Spar? to get stuff for my Gran. I'm pretty sure they were milk vouchers but we could spend them on any food.

So let the parents go to the shops, buy food with the vouchers and cook it fortheir kids. If they can't even manage that then perhaps their kids are better off in foster homes, however much more it costs the state.

And I don't particularly care about people feeling demeaned by getting vouchers. If you can't look after yourself then you have what's on offer and sod being offended.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

What advantages do vouchers have over actual hot meals?
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
What advantages do vouchers have over actual hot meals?


Vouchers = easy to print

Hot meals = Expensive to produce and distribute.

I don't see the fascination with what temperature the meal is, as long as the meal has a decent calorific value and is fairly healthy, does it matter?
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 28 Oct 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
What advantages do vouchers have over actual hot meals?


Logistics. Assuming for hot meals you need to either deliver them to the end user or bring the end user to a centralised point for distribution. Either way is expensive and full of red tape. Even if you use volunteers, vetting would need to be done and most of them would vanish in to thin air after posting their first photo of a delivery on social media and getting some likes.

Vouchers can be easier, though more open to abuse.
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