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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


Are these questions too difficult to answer?


No, they're not but the problem wasn't the rioting and looting, that was the result of the problem. If you have a disgruntled populace and deliberately antagonize them is it any surprise when they decide to let loose?


I will never see rioting and looting, not to mention violent assault and murder as an acceptable response in politics. It's just a step away from terrorism in my book. Tell the business owners and residents of the cities affected, preferably to their faces, that the rioting and looting isn't a problem. I take it that you haven't been directly affected by it?

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Do you think that using violence on your own citizenry would have resolved the issue, what do you suppose the aftermath of the Brixton riots would have been like if the army had been sent in all guns blazing?


Where did I talk about "all guns blazing"? Rolling Eyes There are methods of riot control and dispersal, well known and practised by police and other relevant bodies. Don't try to tell me you know nothing of this. It's just because these riots can somehow be disingenuously ascribed to a president you don't happen to like that you conveniently forget this. What if Trump supporters decide to take a leaf from your book for the whole of the Biden term?

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In the true spirit of whataboutism, what would you consider an appropriate response to the killing by the police of a thousand black people a year?


"A thousand" seems like a fishy number to me. Want to be more specific, perhaps show exact figures for how many in each of, say, the last five years? Want to talk about the circumstances of each case, or are they all the same (yeah, right Rolling Eyes ). And how many white people killed by police in the same timescale? How many latinos? How many police officers killed in the course of duty? Or don't those matter?

I have told you before what should be done about police officers killing members of the public. Rigorous investigation of each incident, better funding for police for ongoing career-long training, and better selection processes. But no, lets remove police from the streets where violent crime is commonplace because we have labelled them all as racist Rolling Eyes
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:32 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Btw, if you're a violent criminal, I give not one shit if you're shot dead by the police, or anyone else for that matter, whether you're black, brown, white, green or purple with pink spots.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 08:57 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Lord Percy wrote:
Hats


Huh?

I really don't know what you're trying to say here but if you're implying that Trump was wrong to focus on jobs and the economy instead of promoting social cohesion I tend to agree. Whether you think he did a good job (up to Covid hitting anyway) is neither here nor there, he's a fool to think "judge me on my results" holds any sway in a political fight.


Yeah that's pretty much it.

Federal nuances etc are one thing, but when his main platform was one based on the now world famous phrase "Make America Great Again", it's not exactly a badge of honour to have massive riots across the country in the last year of your term.

I think it's incorrect to say he focussed on jobs/economy instead of social cohesion. It's really not hard to work on both of those things at the same time.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 11:33 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
You don't comment on loads of stuff I ask of you directly Wink
To be absolutely honest, I really haven't looked closely into the PR/FPTP argument. I suppose I will get around to it at some point.


You should probably get around to it - it's a game changer Smile

chickenstrip wrote:
But I still don't see any feasible solutions, unless the world opts for more nuclear power.
Having said that, I saw an article somewhere about Rolls Royce (propulsion division) talking about building 6(?) small reactors for power generation in the UK. I don't know if anything will come of this.
But solar and wind power seem to me to just not have the capability for worldwide use without covering just about every square inch of the planet in panels/wind farms. And then there's the still yet to be solved problem of power storage. We can't drop everything we have until these are solved.


No argument there. We need a decent baseload system that isn't fossil fuel based and nuclear seems to be the only viable large scale alternative. Thorium salt reactors appear to be a viable and much lower risk solution - there needs to be a lot more work in that direction IMO.

chickenstrip wrote:
I think it'd be more realistic to have some kind of strict imposition of regulation of global corporations rather than scrap capitalism. I don't think I'll ever be convinced that socialism will work on a large scale. There seems to be no end to how far you have to keep going with it for one thing, and you end up with poverty and misery for all. Or you'd at least have to call a halt to the production of new technology, since there'd be no way to pay for it all.


A modified form of socialism would be better than the alternative although it's not an ideal. Humanity needs the drive to develop new technologies and advance itself in order to survive in the longer term. It also needs population control to reduce resource demand as a matter of urgency but that's another thing entirely.

chickenstrip wrote:
I did mention a little while ago that I thought we could do with experienced people from industry and such expertise as science, medicine etc having more involvement in government - the Chinese do it, and of course we wouldn't need to have the authoritarianism of their system too (although again, I think that's where socialism would eventually take us as a single ideology - I can't think of anywhere at any time where it hasn't).*
These people wouldn't make governmental decisions (and their ideas and opinions would still need to be cross-checked with others, or we'd constantly end up with what we're getting with the management of the Covid situation - over-reaction, poor science that doesn't appear to be peer reviewed in any way, whilst much of the scientific community disagrees and insists we are doing it all wrong) - perhaps something to replace the HoL.

But I totally agree that our current crop of politicians have no relevant experience, or even sufficient intelligence to run a country, in all parties.


"Professional" politicians are a huge bugbear of mine. Along with the Machiavellian "professional" advisors.

And the FPTP system. And the party system... Laughing


chickenstrip wrote:
*Incidentally, you talk of not having any specific ideologies, but as far as I can see, you're just suggesting an alternative already known ideology to what we currently have - socialism.


I'm not advocating socialism as in the hard left ideology. I'm advocating a middle ground that has a more equitable outcome across the board. Buggered if I know what it is though.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:

A modified form of socialism would be better than the alternative although it's not an ideal. Humanity needs the drive to develop new technologies and advance itself in order to survive in the longer term.

I'm not advocating socialism as in the hard left ideology. I'm advocating a middle ground that has a more equitable outcome across the board. Buggered if I know what it is though.


And this is the problem that socialism has. If you strive for equitability, you restrict those who are innovative. So you don't get your advances in technology and knowledge. We shouldn't hold back the brightest, but they need an incentive. It is always the private sector that is best at innovation.

We have the best system that has ever been thought of. It just needs us to use it properly.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting show from Tucker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ki6S-WsKU

Quote:
The only solution is honesty

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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:11 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't resist the deliciousness of this Laughing

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55038777
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:07 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


And this is the problem that socialism has. If you strive for equitability, you restrict those who are innovative.


Bulls#it. More strawman crap. Extending resources to the great mass of a population is hardly restricting innovation, quite the opposite. Where do think all your technocrats are going to come from? The wealthy elite who can afford to buy an education for their children?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
I think it's incorrect to say he focussed on jobs/economy instead of social cohesion. It's really not hard to work on both of those things at the same time.


No, I think he did skip social cohesion. Even if you eat the whole bowl of propaganda cornflakes he only got ppl of color jobs and that's not the dream they'd previously been sold. (Racial) justice doesn't just need to be done it needs to be seen to be done Rolling Eyes

You could be ultra-generous and say he had a stab at World Peace... well done, Donald, now did that cut any ice with the American electorate? BTW thanks for the jobs, Donald, but what have you done for me lately?!

Which brings me to the elephant in the room, Covid. He might have got by just on his good works but let's face it the US has done particularly badly with this "Plague from China." Now, whether he actually could have done much given most of the key decisions about (mis)management are at the State level. Again, ppl putting X's in boxes rarely have time for nuance. Law & order, immigration, abortion, gun-ownership. He just played to his base and just hoped there were more Blues than Red.

Biden was no better. I don't recall him attempting any appeal to Republicans beyond "Orange Man Bad." Worse, he even went as far as "vote Trump, you ain't Black" which has to go down as the worst foot-shooting incident since Hillary's "deplorables" Sad

Worst election in American history... till the next one, obviously Smile
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Worst election in American history... till the next one, obviously Smile


Depends on what your criteria for judging is, on entertainment value its easily ten stars!
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 21:45 - 23 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
As it should be, how's that even news?

News would be "Twitter hands over accounts immediately despite Trump not conceding" or "Twitter refuses to hand over accounts until Trump concedes."

Daily Mail version: "Twitter discovers dick pics in POTUS transition" Very Happy


"Twitter discovers Nobcat.jpg in POTUS transition"
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

More sweet deliciousness. I fear for my pancreas. Laughing

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55052640

Dance!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
More sweet deliciousness. I fear for my pancreas. Laughing

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-55052640

Dance!


Another great victory for Corporate Interests and the Globalists Thumbs Up
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

As we move into the autopsy period of Trumps term as president I found this interesting NY Times article from last year.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/us/politics/trump-working-class.amp.html

Interesting is its view that Trump is so obsessed with charectising the Dems as a far left group that he is ignoring opportunities to pass constructive blue coller policies such as minimum wage and healthcare cost stuff. Things which would have broadened his support in the election. That he was also so distracted by the Dems attempts to impeach him that he is bunkered in an "at war" mindset, which made it impossible for him to spot legislation opportunities that would benefit him in an upcoming election. I read the article and came away with the impression that Trump was being skillfully out-manoeuvred by the Dems. That his propensity to fire people stripped him of good counsel that would have advised him to work more on policy across benches that would have bolstered his support.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also too busy away playing golf, and cheating, apparently Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPqW_KULr9k
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Also too busy away playing golf, and cheating, apparently Laughing


To make it clear what this meant, at golf, not on his wife. Though he seems to do that quite a lot as well.
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Johnnythefox
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are Republicans who lost not entitled to act the same way as remainers who lost the referendum? Launch endless legal challenges, claim the vote was rigged, hold protest marches, twitter like mad...
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Rebel
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PostPosted: 18:12 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indubitably. A crossroads in our history as a species.
We the People versus the not so great reset.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rebel wrote:
A crossroads in our history as a species.

Steady on old chap.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 24 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPqW_KULr9k


And.......
https://youtu.be/AOPyzgIwy9U
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 25 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Interesting show from Tucker:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5ki6S-WsKU

Quote:
The only solution is honesty


Also this, from Tucker, but not aired because he got upset by a few truth bombs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_nFI2Zb7qE&ab_channel=NowThisNews

Quote:
You're a millionaire paid by billionaires
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 09:11 - 25 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
As we move into the autopsy period of Trumps term as president I found this interesting NY Times article from last year.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/07/23/us/politics/trump-working-class.amp.html

Interesting is its view that Trump is so obsessed with charectising the Dems as a far left group that he is ignoring opportunities to pass constructive blue coller policies such as minimum wage and healthcare cost stuff. Things which would have broadened his support in the election. That he was also so distracted by the Dems attempts to impeach him that he is bunkered in an "at war" mindset, which made it impossible for him to spot legislation opportunities that would benefit him in an upcoming election. I read the article and came away with the impression that Trump was being skillfully out-manoeuvred by the Dems. That his propensity to fire people stripped him of good counsel that would have advised him to work more on policy across benches that would have bolstered his support.


Also makes an interesting case for why the political classes and the businesses classes should stay separate. Normally I would support the belief that a government should be filled with folk who have business/industry experience, but there's a fair argument to be made for the fact that politics is a pursuit unto itself, where pure business-style decisions are not as important as those which are supposed to win battles of society. Similar to how you want your military to contain people who can win wars, regardless of any arbitrary business acumen. The Dems, if they really did outmanoeuvre Trump as the article suggests, did so because they know about and operate via political strategy. Quite interesting.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:27 - 25 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:

Also makes an interesting case for why the political classes and the businesses classes should stay separate. Normally I would support the belief that a government should be filled with folk who have business/industry experience, but there's a fair argument to be made for the fact that politics is a pursuit unto itself, where pure business-style decisions are not as important as those which are supposed to win battles of society. Similar to how you want your military to contain people who can win wars, regardless of any arbitrary business acumen. The Dems, if they really did outmanoeuvre Trump as the article suggests, did so because they know about and operate via political strategy. Quite interesting.


Some interesting talk about socialism, capitalism, and "conscious capitalism" here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHXIQhvI8cw

Of course as always with The Rogan, the podcast goes many other places too.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 25 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


Some interesting talk about socialism, capitalism, and "conscious capitalism" here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHXIQhvI8cw

Of course as always with The Rogan, the podcast goes many other places too.


A short clip here with some of the discussion, for those with attention span problems Laughing :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOBrCSNt8vo
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