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dented wheel rim writes a bike off now, apparently

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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: dented wheel rim writes a bike off now, apparently Reply with quote
I was talking to someone the other day who was saying how there were bikes in our local scrap dealers that'd been written off solely because of e.g. a dented front wheel rim. This seemed a bit unlikely, I thought - and I said as much. But this guy - who's an experienced rider and not afraid to twirl a spanner when required (sfaict) - was absolutely adamant.

Anyone else heard of this? Is it a new thing? Does it vary according to insurer? Etc.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It all comes down to costs.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anything's possible. It might be a rim to you and me but once an engineer's made a report it could balloon into a tyre, forks, disks etc. basically a new front end...

An insurance job is distinct from other work Sad
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:31 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Use your loaf. It varies according to bike. Modern sporty bikes have had lighter and lighter wheels for years with stuff like the S1000RR M sport having carbon fibre wheels as standard. If a carbon fibre wheel is dinged, that's a lot of money down the hole.

Also you got to bear in mind that owners can insist that repairs are done with new OEM parts, of which Wheels are rather expensive. I'm fairly sure my Street Triple would be written off if I dented a wheel, despite there being a ton of Daytona 675 wheels out there that would fit straight on.

It would surprise me if a £20k bike is written off by £3000 wheels, but it wouldn't surprise me if a £3000 bike is written off by some £1500 wheels.
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GSTEEL32
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I guess with new bikes commanding prices of £15 - 20k for a "standard" sport bike, it wont take too many items before it becomes financially unviable.

Do scrappies not put pretty much everything on eBay now, anyway ?
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

An insurance job is distinct from other work Sad


It's difficult to really tie down the origins of that phrase but back in my broking day, 20 years ago, where I was heavily involved with motor trade - there was a clear delineation. It went a bit like this:

Situation 1: Customer comes into bodyshop with scraped front bumper and wing, and tie rod arm mildly tweaked. Doesn't have fully comprehensive insurance and wants job doing. Bodyshop says well what you'd ideally want is a new wing and bumper then sprayed in to match, plus the tie rod arm might have transferred some impact into the inner chassis mounting points but we won't know that without having it properly investigated, but hey.... what we can do which will be much cheaper is we can sand / spray bumper with it still on the car, and fill / prime / spray the wing back in, plus change the tie rod which will probably just be alright and that'll get it 85% of the way there and you'd not really notice the difference. All in ~£600 how's that sound? Customer says ooh yes please that'll do nicely thanks very much.

Situation 2: Customer comes into bodyshop with scraped front bumper and wing, and tie rod arm mildly tweaked. Has fully comprehensive insurance and wants job doing. Bodyshop says well what you'd ideally want is a new wing and bumper then sprayed in to match, plus the tie rod arm might have transferred some impact into the inner chassis mounting points but we won't know that without having it properly investigated, but hey.... what we can do which will be much cheaper is we can sand / spray bumper with it still on the car, and fill / prime / spray the wing back in, plus change the tie rod and that'll get it 85% of the way there and you'd not really notice the difference. All in ~£600 how's that sound? Customer says we'll I've got fully comp insurance so I don't want the car being 85% there, I want it 100% upwards on what it was, and if it's so much as 1% off that I'll be bringing it back every week to find fault with your work. How much do you want to do that? £3000 says the garage. Well the insurance is covering it so happy days Thumbs Up


That's pretty much all it comes down to - customer behaviour. The expectation levels of an insurance repair are just that much higher. The costs are, therefore, so much higher.

Anyway, switching back to bikes - it's actually very true that small amount of damage = more chance of being written off than with cars. That's down to a couple of factors if you ask me:
1) The consequence of minor / hidden damage and safety implications - eg, you don't change the front forks as they look absolutely fine, but then one of the legs has metal fatigue and explodes (bad example but whatever).
2) The relatively higher salvage price that bike fetch over cars. The recouping of the insurer's layout via the salvage makes it not really worth the risk of the customer turning out to be one of those 'fussy ones' that wants to pick holes in everything - with the cost of bike parts you could easily find yourself sticking another grand on the bill and at that point you could easily get to be paying out more than you would have done just to write it off.


That's my take on it, anyway.
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winz
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had this happen recently when my K1200 was stolen.

As the steering lock had been snapped, when the engineer called me up he said that due to the complexity of the front end of the bike it would cost about 3k to just fix that. He mentioned even if i wanted to buy the bike back and fix myself it would still be a complicated and expensive repair by a competent mechanic.

So a buckled wheel writing off a bike doesn't really surprise me as there could be other issues that bugger the bike up when the wheel was dented.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not quite a wheel, but a colleague had a brand new KTM written off after it was stolen the day he bought it.

Nose cone cracked and ignition smashed. 9k bike with 20 miles on it written off.

So yes, wheels from most manufacturers are stupidly expensive so I can imagine it being the case.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
With a bike bought new and decent gap insurance, a write-off should always be preferable to a repair.

In my case, the bike cost me £6500 new. It was end of line, undesirable model, and heavily discounted. They listed at something like £8500, which was what my local dealer was asking.

Gap insurance will pay the difference between the insurance payout, and the cost of a brand new replacement bike - not what I paid for it, but what a replacement would cost.

The bike is currently 18 months old and worth somewhere between £5k and 5.5k. So if it gets written off, I get about £8500. If it gets repaired the value would go down about £500.

The gap policy is 3 years long in my case. I'm likely to get somewhat lax with security (but still in compliance with my insurance policy) for the last 6 months of my gap policy.
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Easy-X wrote:

An insurance job is distinct from other work Sad


What arry said


I run a bodyshop and that's exactly what happens.

When you buy fully comp insurance, you're essentially telling the insurance company that if you damage the vehicle, you're expecting them to pay to put it back in the condition it was before the accident, or reimburse you the cost of replacing the whole thing, if repair isn't economical.

Therefore, the insurance company will be expecting brand new, factory parts to be fitted and that includes even the most light damaged bits, stuff that maybe you wouldnt really care about.

There is also such a thing as a contract repair and that goes like this:

You smash up your whatever and the bill comes to £5K, against a value of £6K, so the insurance company want to write it off, but you say you want it repaired - the repair shop are approached to see if they can repair it for less, using any method they like, ie second hand parts, non genuine parts, repair instead of replace, or leave it as it is.

The repairer reckon they can do it for £3K and if everyone agrees, the insurance company gives the repairer £3K (but that's it, if it costs more, tough turnips) and you get your machine back, but not neccessarily exactly as it was pre accident.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can't you use that to your advantage though? Buy the wreck back off them, throw a new hoop on it, job done.
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arry
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PostPosted: 13:37 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
Can't you use that to your advantage though? Buy the wreck back off them, throw a new hoop on it, job done.


Tougher these days as the assessors are more overzealous than ever and the DVLA decided to completely re-write the lawbook to tell you that you can't have a V5 on the more significantly damaged categories, despite (I believe) having absolutely no lawful ability to do so - if there is legislation that goes with that shift I'd like to read it. That said, I haven't gone fishing for it for a while.

I've helped countless people get settlements where they've retained salvage, repaired it to a good standard and ended up with a few thousand quid in their pocket to do what they please with. Best example was a friend's 200SX. Got smacked from behind - quite bad but still structurally sound. Got Cat C'd and they made him quite a fair offer on the car first go around actually - more than I was expected for a modified older car with a book value that was likely to be diddly squat. Ended up getting the offer upped slightly, the salvage value lowered slightly, and the car repaired to a decent standard by a trusted bodyshop for fairly low cost. That gave him £2500 left to play with which he spent on further tuning. The car came back looking better than it started and with a fair chunk more power. The fact it's Cat C doesn't bother him in slightest - it's not the type of car you'd worry about it. Win-win.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
From my (limited) experience of buying/repairing/selling salvaged vehicles the man on the street finds the new system easier to grasp. He/she never gets to see Cat S (structural damage) and Cat N means something dented got replaced or repainted.

"Yeah, Cat C but we untwisted the frame, it'll be fine" Shocked Those days are pretty much over.
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arry
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 17 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
He/she never gets to see Cat S (structural damage) and Cat N means something dented got replaced or repainted.


Until they read their V5.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
He/she never gets to see Cat S (structural damage) and Cat N means something dented got replaced or repainted.


Until they read their V5.


That's the whole point: there is clear S on the V5 which most people seem to grasp. I'm not saying anything's been "solved" as such but the tendency is Cat S appearing more often repaired and certified by a garage rather than a bloke in a shed taking a hammer to the old Cat C.

<addendum> I probably should have phrased it better. I was wrong to say "never sees a Cat S" but you do have to look for such things these days, if you're the bargain hunter sort.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd be curious if there were any stats like...

% of Cat N that get bought by the original owner vs someone else getting it back on the road vs broken up for parts

Similarly % of Cat S that are repaired vs broken up.

(I think I'm right in saying Cat A goes in the masher and Cat B gets stripped?)
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Wife's car was written off for a 3 mph car park door bending session, assessor went along the lines of could be frame damage etc etc to dangerous to drive etc etc, She got a crap pay out due to excess cost on insurance, bought the car back and its going fine two years later still with the dent and two MOTs later. What she should have done is said nothing to the insurance, paid the £300 for the repair and charged the guy who did the ding.

My bike was a cat N write off when I bought it, except for a few little things that have since been put right, there is next to bugger all wrong with it. That's past a few MOTs since too.
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:50 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Wife's car was written off for a 3 mph car park door bending session, assessor went along the lines of could be frame damage etc etc to dangerous to drive etc etc, She got a crap pay out due to excess cost on insurance, bought the car back and its going fine two years later still with the dent and two MOTs later. What she should have done is said nothing to the insurance, paid the £300 for the repair and charged the guy who did the ding.


Why hasn't she reclaimed the excess from the third party as an uninsured loss?
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:51 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
I'd be curious if there were any stats like...

% of Cat N that get bought by the original owner vs someone else getting it back on the road vs broken up for parts

Similarly % of Cat S that are repaired vs broken up.

(I think I'm right in saying Cat A goes in the masher and Cat B gets stripped?)


Dunno. My experience was there's not many 'normal' folk that buy back the salvage but there's plenty of Cat S cars for sale so I'd suggest the salvage co's are filling their boots.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Wife's car was written off for a 3 mph car park door bending session, assessor went along the lines of could be frame damage etc etc to dangerous to drive etc etc, She got a crap pay out due to excess cost on insurance, bought the car back and its going fine two years later still with the dent and two MOTs later. What she should have done is said nothing to the insurance, paid the £300 for the repair and charged the guy who did the ding.


Why hasn't she reclaimed the excess from the third party as an uninsured loss?


Maybe because the wife caused the door realignment? Very Happy
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 18 Nov 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Dunno. My experience was there's not many 'normal' folk that buy back the salvage but there's plenty of Cat S cars for sale so I'd suggest the salvage co's are filling their boots.


Yes, I'd probably want to break it down further and separate the stats for bikes. Unless you classify bikers as 'normal folk' Wink
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