Tell me all about... suspension :)

[Easy-X]

Waiting for the planets to align till I can get me some XSR700 action. In the meantime I've watched some videos, know your enemy and all that And the recurring criticism is always...

Suspension

So in my usual spirit of "You know nothing, Jon Snow" I'd like figure out what's worth doing and what's just track day fluff.

Starting point for the XSR700/MT07 is pretty much a blank slate: boggest of bog standard non-adjustable front forks, basic pre-load adjustable rear shock. Assume a full rebuild or replacement of the front forks and/or their internals is perfectly feasible, rear shock will just be adjust or swap.

Option 1: Leave it alone. Oh dear, how boring! However, my elfin-like form does me a favour here as it places me in the "Japanese" sub-75kg category. I might therefore find the stock suspension acceptable.

Option 2: Trim 10~15mm from the fork spacers, up the oil weight from 10W to 15W. This seems to be the minimal modification touted.

Option 3: Replace fork top-caps to get pre-load adjustment. Seems a lot less "hacky" than the previous option. Usually this is coupled with replacement springs which leads to the question: linear or progressive?

Option 3a: I see "emulators" mentioned which seem to be a cheap but annoying way to add some regulation to the oil flow: hassle in that complete disassembly is required to fit them and more hassle to do the same again if they need adjustment.

Option 4: Drop in cartridges. Well, now you have all the spinny bits! But is all that necessary on a street bike?

For the rear shock I guess it's the simple case of "how much money would you like to burn?" but is it a case of upgrading in tandem with whatever's done to the forks or are the benefits independent?

Obviously all this stuff would need a proper set up or what's the point
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[A100man]

Why bother - real cruiser men go 'hard-tail'..
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[Old Git Racing]

When I got my Tracer 700 it had already been modded with YSS fork emulators and YSS shock. The bloke who had it before me must have been mahoosive cos there was barely any sag either end and I'm no racing snake at 14.5 st.
Experimented over the summer, at the back I ended up taking 6 full turns of preload off and a load of rebound to get it to follow the road and save my kidneys.
The front end was more problematic. Had the emulators out several times but could never get it soft enough, sag was next to nothing as well. Ended up taking the emulators out, changing to 12.5wt oil with more in and adjustable fork caps with reduced spacer length, sorry cant remember how much more oil or how much I took off the spacers.
Compared to how it was it like a magic carpet now.
First thing to get right is the sag or nothing else matters. I have 35mm rear and 25mm front.
Its never going to like Ohlins but it is ok for me now, hope this helps.

OGR
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2022 Tiger Sport 660 2019 Street Twin 2003 K3 gixxer 1000 1998 Srad 600 track hack

[redeem ouzzer]

[wr6133]

Ride it for a bit first, if the suspension is so bad you feel it's impeding on your ability to extract performance from the bike or causing real comfort issues, then option 3a or 4 + rear shock. Don't feck about with 1,2 and 3, just do a proper job.

I do sometimes wonder if the constant criticisms of crap suspension these days are always valid or if it's become fashionable to blame rider short comings on poor suspension. Bit like blaming crashes resulting from rider error on "diesel patch".

Considered the Ducati Scrambler? Grand more and pulls off that retro look far better.

[Kris]

[chickenstrip]

[Robby]

Ride it and see. Suspension is down to your weight, riding style, roads and personal preference.

So this means that even very crap suspension could be fine for you, if you're using the bike in the range where that suspension works. The minor tweaks you mentioned - preload and oil weight - provide a small amount of adjustment. The main problem is that with basic suspension you're stuck with a limited range of use cases where it works properly. Get outside of this range and it either too soft, too hard, too much or too little damping, or it just can't respond quickly enough.

I have had to learn about this in the last couple of years because, for the first time in my life, I got a bike where the suspension is just dangerously shit from the factory. The forks were saggy when ridden gently, but went rock solid when moving on a rough surface - not doing what suspension should do. The rear shocks just couldn't change direction quickly enough and were very hard, so I had the odd sensation of a firm rear end and plenty of punches in the kidneys, but the traction control light always coming on.

My solution has been new fork springs and cartridge emulators in the front, which sorted it. Could go further and fit full cartridges, but that's diminishing returns. New shocks on the back from the shock factory, which are pretty good but not incredible. Better than hagon, worse than I assume Ohlins would be. Messing around with spring rates is a thing, and gets expensive quickly.

[MCN]

Follow the guidance online. Fast Bikes mag and such aye have a skit on spension set-up.
It's not rocket surgery to get it reasonably adjusted for general riding.
As mentioned up there, /\ the only real need to get purnikerty about it is if you intend to push the hoowur to it's/your limits.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[Easy-X]

[Polarbear]

I'm one of those who regard suspension as a bit of the dark art.

My Striple R was terrible straight out of the crate. I played with it according to numerous U tubes and guides on the internet. No, still bad.

So one track day where I went with friends I paid a firm to set it up for me. What a difference. Set up, go for a thrash, come back and fine tune. Worth every penny to me.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[wr6133]

[Fizzer Thou]

I quickly found that the OEM rear shock on my 5JJ R1 was not as good as it could be,so opted for an Ohlins like I have on a few of my other bikes.This was fitted at an early stage of my ownership of the bike and was assured by the included documents that it was set up for my weight and for my intended use ie.not on the track.From the off the feedback through my backside suggested that there was something wrong.I had adjusted the SAG when the superior shock was fitted,but the clickers were miles out from the 'suggested' settings that the paperwork said they were.After going to the setup in the owners manual it made a world of difference and after a bit of fine tuning I am happy to stuff the bike in to a corner,knowing that the bike will not wobble and bounce half way through.The wear pattern on the tyre also shows that the suspension is working correctly,with the Michelin PR3 that was on there for 13,000 miles worn evenly across the width.

The situation with upgrading the rear of the R1 showed up the low quality front springs,so they were replaced with Ohlins uprated springs and decent Ohlins grade 5 fork oil. The cartridge was flushed with some cheap fork oil and left to drain overnight and the air gap carefully measured.And what a world of difference they made.The information from the Haynes manual,which is the same to all intents and purposes as that from the genuine Yamaha document,was adhered to and the results were worth the effort
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Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[MarJay]

https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=100711

Ignore any setup guide that says: "Street Triple: 2 clicks off of the front rebound, one off of compression..." etc

The guide linked to above is the closest thing to a generic suspension setup guide I've seen. There is literally nothing on Youtube unless you pay and precious little else on the internet at large that I can find. The above guide from a magazine circa 1999 is honestly the best I've found.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[stinkwheel]

Set the sag, then tweak everything else.

If the sag is wrong, there is no point tweaking anything else, you're painting the bricks before you built the wall. Sag is determined by spring strength and preload.

From experience, if the spring rate and sag are correctly set, even if the damping fails totally, the bike will still be rideable (albeit a tad boingy).

Go to this page:
https://racetech.com/ProductSearch/12/Yamaha/XSR700/2019

Click on calculate spring rates, fill in the details, read what it suggests about spring rate, preload, fork oil (level and type) and (if you're made of money) valving.

If you do what they suggest there, you will be in the correct ballpark.

If there is no cable tie round your fork stanchion, you aren't setting up suspension, you are just randomly fiddling with things.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Easy-X]

[sickpup]

[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

[A100man]

[wr6133]

I've been impressed by YSS. Both my old ZZR's I fitted YSS rear shocks too and I couldn't pick a fault with them on the road. £260 for their basic monoshock (preload, rebound and height +/-10mm adjustable).

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[Old Git Racing]