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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Old Git Racing wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:


Interesting. What weight oil is standard for the tracer 700?


Its 10wt as standard.

OGR


You've probably seen it already but I thought what Dave Moss said about the MT07 suspension was interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s91qcAXWKpI&t=163s
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:30 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Nitron charge £462 for their most basic shock, always built to order to customer spec. I think the remote preload adjuster is not expensive either...


£385+VAT or £462 for the standard Nitron shock and an additional £185+VAT or £222 for the Hydraulic adjuster for a grand total of £570+VAT or £684 for a basic shock which is a ridiculous price for a standard shock.

Is a Nitron worth the money? Maybe, maybe not, never played with one. Is a Hagon worth the money? my experience says yes.

Biggest thing to my mind is to find out what servicing costs and what spares like springs cost. In the case of a Hagon a full service and replacement of their parts that are considered service items is only £100, a new spring in a different weight is only £50-£75 and can be fitted free as part of the service. If I spend money I like the item to last.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
MarJay wrote:


Nitron charge £462 for their most basic shock, always built to order to customer spec. I think the remote preload adjuster is not expensive either...


That's not expensive?! I think I'm out of touch! and skint Laughing


All relative isn't it? Not much to fritter on a new 8k bike or half the value of my FZ750.. That's the problem with running shitters - justifying these parts.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:
That's the problem with running shitters - justifying these parts.


exactly - my nine could theoretically be improved no end with a nitron - but it's probably about a third what the bike would go for if I flogged it, may well be half, now i've got 77k on it (that's motorway crud for yer).
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:17 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know about rear mono-shocks but my father-in-law recently put Hagons on the back of his Bonnie and thinks they're fantastic.

Well it sounds like for my needs adjusting the pre-load would probably be enough. I was looking at this:

https://www.tecbikeparts.com/product/mt07-xsr700-tracer700-front-fork-upgrade-kit-progressive-springs-and-fork-top-pre-load-ride-height-adjusters/
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

https://www.tecbikeparts.com/product/mt07-xsr700-tracer700-front-fork-upgrade-kit-progressive-springs-and-fork-top-pre-load-ride-height-adjusters/


I wouldn't the fact they sell stuff with their branding ranging from bashplates to shocks and exhaust systems would make me think they are just reboxing far eastern cheap stuff and doubling the price.

Double the price but its from a manufacturer that makes suspension parts https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-MT-07-2014-2018-YSS-Fork-Upgrade-Kit-Inc-Springs-Valves/293484409801?hash=item445508b3c9:g:~~oAAOSwK8BeTWDd
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
wr6133 wrote:
Easy-X wrote:

https://www.tecbikeparts.com/product/mt07-xsr700-tracer700-front-fork-upgrade-kit-progressive-springs-and-fork-top-pre-load-ride-height-adjusters/


I wouldn't the fact they sell stuff with their branding ranging from bashplates to shocks and exhaust systems would make me think they are just reboxing far eastern cheap stuff and doubling the price.

Double the price but its from a manufacturer that makes suspension parts https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-MT-07-2014-2018-YSS-Fork-Upgrade-Kit-Inc-Springs-Valves/293484409801?hash=item445508b3c9:g:~~oAAOSwK8BeTWDd


Sorry, that was just a convenient example. What I realise now, from starting this thread, is it's not as simple as just throwing some new springs in the forks it's worth the extra mile to think about spring-rates and such like which the cheap kits fail to mention.

Very informative so far, thanks chaps Thumbs Up
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:20 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:


Not that I have tried a a Shock Factory rear shock but I have a Hagon on the rear of the Deauville which is a custom built non-standard shock with remote preload adjustment for which they charged me the standard £424, the shock factory don't seem to provide a similar shock for the price.


Twin shocks on the Guzzi, so the shock factory ones are in the same price bracket as the Hagon mid-range 2810 range. I had a pair of 2810s on the last Harley, I was not impressed, went back to standard shocks. Hagon nitro may be better, but that's £500 a pair which is moving into lots of options to consider.

I see Hagon a bit like EBC. Everyone has an opinion, which makes it very hard to get a read on them. I've had crap new shocks from them, but I also have a set of ancient basic hagons on my 250 that are perfect.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 11 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh dear. I just put a new battery in the bathroom scales: 74kg Crying or Very sad

Not quite as svelte as I thought I was. On the bright side it does seem I'm the ideal weight for stock springs.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 11 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:


All relative isn't it?


Yeah, relative to my bank balance Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 13 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
A100man wrote:


All relative isn't it?


Yeah, relative to my bank balance Laughing


On that if you had to choose would you go for newer/less miles or slightly older but change out the suspension?

For example, on Superbike Factory* there's a near new XSR700 but if I went for the one with 8K on it I could afford to swap out the front and rear suspension for high end stuff. (8 thousand miles also suggests you a good way towards swapping the rear shock anyway.)

*Easy to browse, not necessarily going buy from them
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A100man
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


On that if you had to choose would you go for newer/less miles or slightly older but change out the suspension?

For example, on Superbike Factory* there's a near new XSR700 but if I went for the one with 8K on it I could afford to swap out the front and rear suspension for high end stuff. (8 thousand miles also suggests you a good way towards swapping the rear shock anyway.)



Not sure If I'd get hung up on meddling with the suspension on an 8k miles bike.. FWIW MCN write this about the XSR..

'Even though the suspension carries a slightly budget feel and is relatively soft, it doesn’t detract from the machine’s impeccable road handling.'

..just ride it first.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 13:04 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
No offence but as someone who bought a 500 Rebel out of choice, it's a fair assumption that you are not going to be jumping onto a Yamaha XSR / MT and instantly running into issues with suspension.

Save your money - in the unlikely event you suddenly get quick enough to have the Yamaha tied in knots and trying to spit you off because you are pushing so much then think about spending some cash.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


Yeah, relative to my bank balance Laughing


On that if you had to choose would you go for newer/less miles or slightly older but change out the suspension?


It depends on the bike, and more importantly, what I want from it. If it's just going to be transport, I'd probably go for newer and live with stock suspension, replacing with something like Hagon when it needs it, if I have the bike for that long. If it was a bike that fired my imagination as something that was going to be for fun, I'd look at the options available first. I wouldn't spend money on top flight suspension for the sake of it. Is it going to really transform the bike? Am I going to get that much more enjoyment out of it if I spend the bucks? And yes, what's in my bank account? Laughing

With my current bike it was a no brainer - I knew about the mods that were widely considered to be worth while. The bike itself had grown on me over ownership of five consecutive models (I actually did the mods to the fourth, and transferred them to no. 5 when no. 4 got totalled). By the the third one, I knew it was a bike I could live with long term. And by then I also knew I could source the parts for not a lot of money. Less than £600 for a USD fork conversion and good rear shock, all proven stuff on this model. Plus I went for a tuning option that also was widely considered to make a major improvement. All applied to a base model that was good to start with in standard form, but had potential to be much better.

On other occasions, I might see a bike that really fired my imagination, and consider it as a bit of a project anyway. One example of that is I'd still like to be able to afford to take one of the old Kawasaki Z650s and go to town on it - mono shock conversion, 750 motor taken out to 810 and loads of goodies including, of course, good sussies. This would also be one to make cosmetically stunning.

The new Z900 captures my imagination, especially the "cafe" version. But what upgrades are available? My first doubt is about the engine characteristics. Is it a bit 'woolly"? A bit underpowered? Are there mods yet to address that, make it a bit more aggressive? What does it handle like as standard, and how much can it be improved, at what cost? What could the end result of upgrades be?

I would have liked to have been able to afford to have upgraded the suspension on my Street Triple, but that was only ever going to be a temporary ownership bike as I'm always limited to some extent on funds, and I had already settled on the Fazer as the bike that was really right for me.

Money, money, money! Always comes down to that in the end!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
All very helpful Thumbs Up Dropping 4 to 6 bags on a bike is definitely in my category of "don't fuck this up!" but then one can go the other way and start overthinking things Thinking

Just to be on the safe side I'm gonna head up to somewhere like Chiswick Honda (turns out they have loads of different brands in stock) and have a sit on everything I can. I might suddenly feel the need to sell my soul for a Street Triple Wink
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
All very helpful Thumbs Up Dropping 4 to 6 bags on a bike is definitely in my category of "don't fuck this up!" but then one can go the other way and start overthinking things Thinking

Just to be on the safe side I'm gonna head up to somewhere like Chiswick Honda (turns out they have loads of different brands in stock) and have a sit on everything I can. I might suddenly feel the need to sell my soul for a Street Triple Wink


Imo, you'd already know what bike you wanted before you even thought about expensive upgrades. Maybe you'll settle on something you don't think needs anything doing to it.

A Street Triple is a very worthwhile consideration. Imv, it's a 'benchmark' bike. But you must have read a lot about them by now to have at least some inkling if they would suit you and what you want from biking.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
My needs are relatively simple: bike needs to teleport from 0 to 40 (even the Rebel can make a good effort at that) needs to cruise along at 60-70 with little effort (anything >600cc these days) less than 33" seat height (no ADV bikes, such a shame) and less than 200kg.

Sounds rather specific but after I took a look at the Ducati Scrambler wr6133 mentioned I realised there's all sorts of things that fit the bill. Just need to make some time for myself; we may be beset by the plague but I seem to be working jolly hard lately.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
My needs are relatively simple: bike needs to teleport from 0 to 40 (even the Rebel can make a good effort at that) needs to cruise along at 60-70 with little effort (anything >600cc these days) less than 33" seat height (no ADV bikes, such a shame) and less than 200kg.



Easy-X wrote:
Starting point for the XSR700/MT07 is pretty much a blank slate: boggest of bog standard non-adjustable front forks, basic pre-load adjustable rear shock. Assume a full rebuild or replacement of the front forks and/or their internals is perfectly feasible, rear shock will just be adjust or swap.

Option 1: Leave it alone. Oh dear, how boring! However, my elfin-like form does me a favour here as it places me in the "Japanese" sub-75kg category. I might therefore find the stock suspension acceptable.


Why wouldn't you?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:09 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Why wouldn't you?


Yes, you're right but much as I understand the principles of suspension is nice put it all in perspective. That and I've learned I can look like a pro for the cost of a cable tie rather than a full cartridge system Laughing
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Blah blah
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PostPosted: 20:29 - 14 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:

All relative isn't it? Not much to fritter on a new 8k bike or half the value of my FZ750.. That's the problem with running shitters - justifying these parts.


Having spent 1/3 of the original purchase price on suspension upgrades, it is all relative.

I dropped on a second hand ohlins and after a rebuild, new spring and set up plus something similar for a set of TiN forks that I had (MCT suspension) the suspension is greatly improved.

If I were to do it again, I'd probably go for a 'basic' Nitron then I wouldn't have had to find somewhere to put the remote reservoirs that the ohlins has (and I've never adjusted since) and the costs would have been similar.

I tried setting sag on the stock rear and the stock forks weren't adjustable so while tweaking it made a difference, it went from being okay to being a smidge better but still just okay.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 15 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Enough fucking about, I've bought this:

https://i.imgur.com/Rla5xsD.jpg?1

2016 but only 3,600 miles. Pocket change to buy with a surprisingly good trade in on the Rebel Cool
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 06:36 - 16 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
like

i thought they were tall-ish though?
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 07:01 - 16 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
2016 but only 3,600 miles. Pocket change to buy with a surprisingly good trade in on the Rebel Cool


Nice, that's going to feel better by pretty much any metric than the rebel.

Last edited by wr6133 on 08:47 - 16 Dec 2020; edited 1 time in total
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 08:25 - 16 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
needs flatter bars
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 16 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
i thought they were tall-ish though?


Relative to the MT-07? Yes. Versus the Tenere 700? Not even close. But it's a bit like trying on helmets - can't just go by looks, the fit might surprise you.

First up I made broom-broom noises on a CB650R (810mm seat height spec) and that was like "hand, meet glove" but being a relatively new model there were no bargains to be had, shame Sad

Then there was the NC750S which everyone seems to be trying to get shot of at the moment, i.e. much cheapness. It felt a bit lardy and yet seat height spec is 790mm?! I'm sure it'd do in a pinch but I didn't like it. However I could appreciate it might be a nice "small" bike for a larger gentleman.

I'm already familiar with the MT-07 so I didn't bother with sitting on one of those so I jumped straight on an XSR (835mm seat height spec.) It felt somewhere between the CB650R & NC750S and like the latter I could get both feet down but not flat. Certainly no worse than the SV650 I had last year (785mm seat height spec.)

Huh? The maths doesn't work! Really you can't go by seat height at all. Seat and bike width seem more important and you can't gauge either of those from a spec sheet.

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
needs flatter bars


You'd think so from that angle but the view from the bike is entirely different. Even so this is where the MT-07/XSR700's ubiquitous nature is an advantage. Handlebar risers, clip-ons, flatter bars... no problem Smile

I didn't bother with a test ride as I'm already familiar with that engine, leave that for a later adventure (I pick up the bike in a few days.)
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