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Sell the Car & buy a BIKE??

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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 09:18 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Mountain_Man86 wrote:
However, what bike would you choose instead?


I tear about the City on a Honda Rebel - probably the last person you should ask Wink

What you probably want is to just get a bike, any bike, maybe even a BMW and ride about a bit for a few months and come back to us with your discoveries.

Personally I haven't got the mindset for long motorway hauls regardless of which bike. Thankfully going to Cornwall the M3 runs out a quarter of the way and then it's much better Smile


I agree with you and although I originally mentioned the R1200 GS, i'm still considering options and will ultimately take guidance from people who know far more than me. I am however fairly keen on the BMW brand.

Having travelled the A303 far too many times, I bet its must nicer on a bike than a car when the weather is right.
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 09:24 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
First things first, 2 hour motorway journeys are ridiculously boring on a motorcycle and you'll hate it.

What tends to happen on a bike is you say to yourself I've got to get somewhere 100 miles away and it takes you 3 hours instead of 2 in the car because you make the route interesting, then it becomes fun.

What about when it's blowing a gale, miserable cold and icy? Are you going to be up for riding your motorcycle then? What about when it's pished it down with rain for 3 days solid? It's the sort of questions you've got to ask yourself really. There's plenty that do it, but I'm glad I don't have to, I just jump in the car instead.

Some things to sort through before you make any choices:
1) You don't know if you'll actually enjoy riding a motorcycle yet. It's not for everyone, honestly, some people just don't like it when they try it. Don't go committing to a path before you've made sure it's for you.
2) Don't go making any decisions about what bike you may or may not want without having actually spent some seat time on an actual motorcycle. Your wants / needs will change massively with experience.
3) Don't forget - especially as you want an all year round biker life - that motorcycle gear isn't generally that cheap. Yes, you can get by with handmedowns and eBay specials but if you're wanting quality gear you can add a grand at least to your original spend. There are cheat ways and you'll find out what works / doesn't work for you again with experience.
4) GS's - see above; almost always owned by lifestylers rather than riders; bought on PCP on a '4000 mile a year Adventure Package' with matching luggage and textiles, then the most adventure they see is the local biker coffee spot on a Sunday morning on a dry day. You said you want to experience life and live it. Buying a GS sounds like the worst 34 year old's mid-life-crisis I ever heard of. Either KTM 1290 it or sell the car and spend every penny you get from it sniffing coke off the assholes of rinsed out hookers in your wife's sister's bed.


Thanks for the good advice. I quite agree with you. In the first instance I aim to do my CBT and then rent a little 125 for a few weeks, just to get some basic experience of 'riding'. Assuming I like it, i'll do my DAS and then start trying out mid-range type bikes which in my mind would be 600-850cc type. Would that seem sensible to you?

Regarding quality gear, this is one area I will buy the best no matter what bike i'm on. Price is irrelevant when it comes to my safety. With this in mind, I would also look to take some advanced riding lessons quite early on so that I don't develop any bad habits.. or at least hopefully don't. This would include off-road riding lessons too.

p.s. this is a mid life crisis.. if it was... i'd be buying a 911 turbo or a boat!
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:

Thanks for the good advice. I quite agree with you. In the first instance I aim to do my CBT and then rent a little 125 for a few weeks, just to get some basic experience of 'riding'. Assuming I like it, i'll do my DAS and then start trying out mid-range type bikes which in my mind would be 600-850cc type. Would that seem sensible to you?


Very, apart from the rental bit. At your age, on a CBT, a 125 will cost you buttons to insure for the year and if you spend £1500 on the right one (something Japanese and in good nick) then if you did 4-5 months on it for experience sake then you'd sell it for £1400 as long as you haven't dropped it. Even if you have dropped it, you won't lose too much and a lot less than hiring a motorcycle on a CBT even if you can find somewhere.

Quote:
Regarding quality gear, this is one area I will buy the best no matter what bike i'm on. Price is irrelevant when it comes to my safety.


Good shout and something to applaud. However, do think your gear choices out carefully as you'll find what you need changes depending on what you're doing. Further, I was also referring (and probably didn't make clear) about warm / dry gear which you can use in the winter months - trust me, having soggy testes for a couple of hours in sub 10degC temperatures is anything but pleasant.

Quote:
With this in mind, I would also look to take some advanced riding lessons quite early on so that I don't develop any bad habits.. or at least hopefully don't. This would include off-road riding lessons too.


It's another good shout. You'll find that the skillset required for passing your test is in practice not a lot like the skillset required for advanced rider qualifications. Advanced training makes a big difference and off-road skills really do improve bike control on road too.

Quote:
p.s. this is a mid life crisis.. if it was... i'd be buying a 911 turbo or a boat!


Lots of bikers have 911's Wink There's a good few boaty types in here too.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 09:59 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:
I am however fairly keen on the BMW brand.


Well, you sort of need to be keen on their bikes, not their brand. BMW are pretty good at badge engineering, but what they haven't been that good at until recently is building 'good' motorcycles. Well built, sure. Quirky, sure. But 'good'? Eeh.

They have recently come out with some impressive four cylinder models, and people rate the GS models but honestly? Are they any better than other bikes available? Probably not. It probably doesn't help that I'm not a fan of giant trailie type bikes anyway ('adventure' as they call them today).

There is so much more out there than BMW. So many good bikes. Don't buy a bike just because the manufacturer happens to make cars, and those cars happen to be well regarded. It means pretty much jack sh*t.

Just look at Suzuki. They make some of the best bikes around, but their cars are all dull budget econoboxes. Admittedly they've had no R&D budget for bikes for about ten years, but that's probably because their car division is absorbing all of their capital.

Honda are similar to some extent. Sure, their cars are reliable, well built and work as cars, but not many of them are exciting. If you took BMW, swapped the images and line ups of the car and bike divisions, you'd probably get Honda.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:


I know the Lakes very well and of course, that includes the Hardknott Pass among others. Generally speaking, what sized engine bike would you recommend for decent rides up those roads? Would the F750GS be suitable? From what i've read, that could be a great starting bike for me.


As I said, I manage fine on a Yamaha Fazer 1000 (FZS, not FZ1). But I didn't choose this bike specifically for gnarly mountain passes. I just cope with those on it, and still enjoy doing that. I've also done the Lake District passes on a Triumph Street Triple, which also isn't ideal. For me though, variety is the spice of life, and as I also mentioned, the Fazer is a great all-rounder.

BMW GS models strike me as being a bit top heavy, and therefore less manageable on steep roads, but people do manage with them I guess.

But you're just contemplating starting out, so learn to ride, learn to manage a motorcycle, and then see where you want to go from there.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:13 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:


Just look at Suzuki. They make some of the best bikes around, but their cars are all dull budget econoboxes. Admittedly they've had no R&D budget for bikes for about ten years, but that's probably because their car division is absorbing all of their capital.


That doesn't make sense. Their car division absorbs all the capital, and yet their cars are budget econoboxes? Confused
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
MarJay wrote:


Just look at Suzuki. They make some of the best bikes around, but their cars are all dull budget econoboxes. Admittedly they've had no R&D budget for bikes for about ten years, but that's probably because their car division is absorbing all of their capital.


That doesn't make sense. Their car division absorbs all the capital, and yet their cars are budget econoboxes? Confused


Yeah, their car division has had a tonne of R&D budget put into it, but it takes the resources of someone like BMW or Mercedes to make cars of that quality. They aren't bad as cars, but they aren't prestige. It's all about the absolute scale.

Their cars are a lot better than they were... but aren't on a par with where their bikes tend to sit in the market. And are certainly no Japanese BMW equivalent.
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
Mountain_Man86 wrote:
I am however fairly keen on the BMW brand.


Well, you sort of need to be keen on their bikes, not their brand. BMW are pretty good at badge engineering, but what they haven't been that good at until recently is building 'good' motorcycles. Well built, sure. Quirky, sure. But 'good'? Eeh.


Apologies, I wasn't clear on this. When I said 'brand' I meant their bikes. I've never owned a BMW car and besides an old M3.. there anon't that many which tickle my fancy!
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Mountain_Man86 wrote:

Thanks for the good advice. I quite agree with you. In the first instance I aim to do my CBT and then rent a little 125 for a few weeks, just to get some basic experience of 'riding'. Assuming I like it, i'll do my DAS and then start trying out mid-range type bikes which in my mind would be 600-850cc type. Would that seem sensible to you?


Very, apart from the rental bit. At your age, on a CBT, a 125 will cost you buttons to insure for the year and if you spend £1500 on the right one (something Japanese and in good nick) then if you did 4-5 months on it for experience sake then you'd sell it for £1400 as long as you haven't dropped it. Even if you have dropped it, you won't lose too much and a lot less than hiring a motorcycle on a CBT even if you can find somewhere.


This sounds like a good idea. Thanks.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Best option would be keep the car if need be trade down a bit and buy a mid-range bike.
There will be a lot of days when being 'forced' to use the bike is no fun at all literally taking the enjoyment out of riding it.
It's not just weather related either, try riding with a bad toothache or bruised leg for example - far more risky than sat in a car.
Then most of us need to go pick up random friends and relatives even if something daft like getting a car in for service etc
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
Best option would be keep the car if need be trade down a bit and buy a mid-range bike.
There will be a lot of days when being 'forced' to use the bike is no fun at all literally taking the enjoyment out of riding it.
It's not just weather related either, try riding with a bad toothache or bruised leg for example - far more risky than sat in a car.
Then most of us need to go pick up random friends and relatives even if something daft like getting a car in for service etc


The best option is definitely to have both a car and a bike.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 10:59 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:


I would go off-road with it and I agree about SUV's and them only ever seeing the mountainous side of a pavement.

However, what bike would you choose instead?


Define "off-road"

Metaled Byways
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50576379857_7e8565ff4f_c.jpg
Fine for a big ADV, no more likely to drop it than on an actual road, can get a bit slippy at the tail end of a rainy week but other than massive potholes fairly civilised.

Dirt tracks
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50620873232_19ef14bf06_c.jpg
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50620873312_1b396c6ea0_c.jpg

Maybe briefly on a big ADV but the ones pictured are nice civilised flat bits when you start adding steep slopes to jagged rocks and 8" deep mud I wouldn't want to be on a 260+KG bike. The bike in the above 2 pics is 160-odd kilos and that's bad enough to pick up when cold, wet and everything is slippery.

The big ADV bikes are probably more suited to the motorway mileage part of your requirement than any real off road use. I live on the edge of Salisbury Plain and the only time I see big ADV's on the byways it's the metaled bits, during good weather and going slower than I was in the summer when I was on a cafe racer with road tyres. Hence my declaration of "gay", nobody ever seems to take one, point it at a muddy hill and shout "YOLO", they are used to present a fantasy image/lifestyle.

If you are getting rid of the car maybe even consider 2 bikes. What's your actual total bike budget?

and the A303 is crap in any vehicle, well maybe it could be good in Challenger 2 so you can just roll over all the selfie takers slowing down at Stonehenge Laughing
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 11:18 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Probably to add to the above, and related to the last post, rider is generally the limiting factor. A GS is a genuinely capable off-road machine, but it's massive, wide, tall, heavy etc. and off road you want light, agile and narrow to have the easiest time (and arguably the most fun).

Let your mind run wild about the possibilities, but until you've had some riding time you really won't know what you actually want. If you're determined to have a GS and you want to go off-road (properly) I'd be tempted by a smaller one, e.g. F850GSA.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I was doing two and a half hours motorway journeys (thus five hours motorway riding for the day) every few weeks until lockdown happened.


Interesting thought regarding change of weather over long journeys. Did you enjoy those long journeys?


What you'll probably find is that motorway riding is a bit of an art in itself - different than town work, different than rural B-roads, different than obscure unmarked back lanes. All of them have their own slightly different kinds of skill and concentration levels, etc. Motorways are never "enjoyable" as such. You *can* wring short minutes of excitement from them, for instance when you're up there at twice the speed limit, passing everything in sight. Whoops did I say motorway I meant autobahn, yes that's right autobahn. But in general motorways are joyless and tedious - monotony is the key sensation.

So, in short, no - I didn't really enjoy those long journeys. My bike is big, comfy and fast - if a bit long in the tooth. Probably not as comfy as a GS, granted - but for a sports tourer it's probably as accommodating as any bike in its class. Just a little cramped seat-to-peg, for my height, over two and a half hours. Maybe what I'd say, as my last words on it, is that on a lovely day where you're assured dry conditions all the way there and all the way back, I would probably toss a coin to decide between car and bike. But honestly, riding on a motorway in heavy rain, on a bike, is pretty foolhardy. Your visibility is ludicrously effed up - and even on a machine with as much presence as a GS, you're still easily missed or ignored by other vehicles.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
But honestly, riding on a motorway in heavy rain, on a bike, is pretty foolhardy. Your visibility is ludicrously effed up - and even on a machine with as much presence as a GS, you're still easily missed or ignored by other vehicles.


Oh, so much this!
But sometimes you get caught out anyway. You know how after a terrible event of endurance in life-threatening conditions you can get a bit of a high thinking, "I went through that and survived!" ? That's about the best to be hoped for Laughing
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Indeed; I found myself once travelling around the M60 then up the M61 to Chorley on my old ER5, in the dark, heavy rain, high winds and at morning rush hour . . . in winter. It wasn't as bad as perhaps I thought it was going to be (already committed so just had to go with it) but it was hardly pleasant. Two layers of waterproofs amazingly kept me dry and warm though, even though it was a naked bike.

A faired bike makes life easier, my Crossrunner is actually relatively comfortable in naff weather, but the keyword is "relatively" - my car would be a far nicer place to be.

On the other hand, a dry "scenic" motorway isn't that unpleasant, e.g. M6 through the Howgills, M74 between Moffat and Hamilton.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
M62 Manchester to Leeds isn't too bad scenery-wise either.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
M62 Manchester to Leeds isn't too bad scenery-wise either.


True although the traffic tends to make things less pleasant
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
that farm in the middle is mad
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Just to go back to the original thread title I mulled over getting rid of my old Skoda. I was thinking along the lines of: if I don't have a car I can politely drop all the jobs that require ladders, drills and big boxes of kit, instead limiting myself to whatever I can cram in a topbox Thinking (The wife still has her car ofc.)

The Skoda costs buttons to insure and maintain but two trips to the City cost me £75 in CC, ULEZ & parking recently Shocked
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd say you need to really ride a bike in all weathers before you decide if you want one as your only vehicle. It's fun in the summer but it becomes a chore when you have to ride in the winter rain. You may get a bike and decide that short Sunday blasts are more your thing instead of 8 hours riding across country for multiple days.

It's also not as practical for quick trips as a car. You can add 10 minutes to your journey just because you have to faff about with putting all the bike gear on and getting the bike out and ready. Then when you get where you need to go you have to either change or put up with wearing bike gear. Although personally I usually wear kevlar jeans and casual riding boots, but those are pretty useless in the winter and not the safest gear.
Not intending to put you off but it's all stuff you realise after a few months.
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 18:30 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Having reflected on what people have been saying, I think it makes a lot of sense to find a solution where I keep the car, and have a bike at the same time. At least until i've ridden for say a year or two and really understand what life with a bike is actually like.

I guess there is quite a lot to be said for arriving at your destination in comfortable (dry) clothing, as opposed to being all soggy!
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ayrton wrote:
It's also not as practical for quick trips as a car. You can add 10 minutes to your journey just because you have to faff about with putting all the bike gear on and getting the bike out and ready. Then when you get where you need to go you have to either change or put up with wearing bike gear. Although personally I usually wear kevlar jeans and casual riding boots, but those are pretty useless in the winter and not the safest gear.


You make a good point!
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mountain_Man86 wrote:
Having reflected on what people have been saying, I think it makes a lot of sense to find a solution where I keep the car, and have a bike at the same time. At least until i've ridden for say a year or two and really understand what life with a bike is actually like.

I guess there is quite a lot to be said for arriving at your destination in comfortable (dry) clothing, as opposed to being all soggy!


I'd say you're bang on.

Not asking to be out of order, but is this something where you've man-maths'd it to yourself and have got the missus' blessing if you're net-neutral on costs? Laughing
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Mountain_Man86
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 10 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Not asking to be out of order, but is this something where you've man-maths'd it to yourself and have got the missus' blessing if you're net-neutral on costs? Laughing


Sort of however, the 'mrs' actually didn't want me to get rid of the car. That part was me thinking we could manage as a 1-car and 1-bike household. So changing the plan to keep both cars will make her happy.

Regarding cost neutrality etc.. Costs are a consideration of course and there was certainly benefit in the switch being effectively cost neutral. However, the points many people have been making suggest that the benefits of this are outweighed by the negatives.

One option i'm currently looking into is the BMW rookie to rider program. It seems like a fairly decent way of entering the bike world. Especially as its open to any of their bikes. Does anyone have experience or comments regarding this program?

In order to move things forward. I've now booked my theory test for the end of next week and have all the books etc coming tomorrow. I guess I should have plenty of time to revise and given that I already drive, it shouldn't be too difficult?!
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The last post was made 3 years, 131 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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