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Whatever happened to graphic equalisers?

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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 31 Dec 2020    Post subject: Whatever happened to graphic equalisers? Reply with quote

I've built up a modest HiFi system over the last year or two which I've also tied in to the TV. I'm pleased with it but it could be 'brighter'. I felt the same about a highly rated Cambridge Audio amp (I thought it was a bit 'muddy') so maybe it's a personal preference out of step with the fashion. Nevertheless, while tweaking stuff it occurred to me that a graphic equaliser would be a good addition, but nobody stocks them these days. Shame! Hours of fun. Laughing

Whatever happened to graphic equalisers?
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 16:29 - 31 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can’t say much for hifi hardware, but FXSound does a great EQ for Windows based machines. The right bastards have changed to a subscription model for it though (used to be pay once), but it’s worth it if you listen to music at all on a laptop/PC.
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 31 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The majority of people stream their music...and the majority of music sounds good enough for them.
That's the main answer.

Also, pretty much all music should've been released where it will sound great on anything. Headphones...massive PA Systems..tinny kitchen radio..Car.
There should be no reason to eq something already good.

Maybe your hearing is slightly impaired..maybe your room is too dead....or it's so boomy that the high freqs can't compete...the speakers are naff or too big/small for the space or maybe you're listening too far away?

HiFi amps are rarely 'tuned' the same way that speakers are, they're flat. They aim to be transparent. Speaker engineers (for consumers) have been optimising that smile EQ for decades to give the listener an 'enhanced' experience.

Graphic eqs outside of stage or studio use are seen as a bit of a gimmick...eye candy.

Say your room is the main issue (and it usually is)...then a parametric or graphic eq could serve a purpose if only to make the best from a bad job.

Best of luck in the search for the perfect sound.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 31 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it's your PC, then try Equalizer APO (works with PC audio of any kind = analogue (jack), digital through S/PDIF, digital through USB, digital via bluetooth). If it's your Tv, check if it has some Audio adjustment capabilities.

...and then fix your room. Razz
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 01 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
Also, pretty much all music should've been released where it will sound great on anything. Headphones...massive PA Systems..tinny kitchen radio..Car.
There should be no reason to eq something already good.

On the other hand I quite like it when you play something on a different device and you hear a guitar part (for example) coming more to the fore than you've heard before. It doesn't happen often (maybe never on digital devices) but still... Also I'd reference XTC's Skylarking* as an example where even the artist wasn't happy with it as first released, although that's an extreme example, I don't think I could tell the difference anyway, and I wouldn't be able to dial it out at home.

Howling Terror wrote:
Maybe your hearing is slightly impaired.

Crikey, I hadn't thought of that. I reckon my hearing is pretty good but I can't exclude the possibility that I've lost some frequencies. Crying or Very sad

Howling Terror wrote:
maybe your room is too dead....or it's so boomy that the high freqs can't compete...the speakers are naff or too big/small for the space or maybe you're listening too far away?

RhynoCZ wrote:
... fix your room. Razz

Speakers are Wharfedale Diamond 220s, wired correctly and on floor stands. I reckon the room is an unsolvable problem. It's a small space, a wooden floor with two sofas and a coffee table. The HiFi/TV are necessarily in a corner by the window.

I am being rather picky though, it's a good sound. I think I've compared it unfairly with what might have been an overly bright '80s Aiwa. I've also had a lot of time on my hands over this locked-down Christmas period to overthink stuff!

Thanks all!

* When it came time to master the album on vinyl in 2010, Andy Partridge - still never entirely happy with the overall sound of the finished album - took it to award-winning mastering engineer John Dent, who noticed something that had never previously been spotted. Somewhere, possibly in the transfer from the multi-channel tape to the stereo master, a polarity had been reversed. This is not the same thing as a reversed left/right channel which puts a stereo picture out of phase & makes the sound unlistenable, but a much more difficult to pin down event that can be triggered by something as simple as a badly wired plug in the overall system which, nonetheless, removes some of the punch & presence from a finished recording.

https://burningshed.com/XTC-Skylarking_corrected_polarity_edition-CD
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 01 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
It's a small space, a wooden floor with two sofas and a coffee table. The HiFi/TV are necessarily in a corner by the window.


Corners are terrible for sound quality as are solid floors.

Maybe try a rug on the floor and for a test, you can hang some thick material on the walls behind the speakers.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 23:00 - 02 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:


Maybe try a rug on the floor and for a test, you can hang some thick material on the walls behind the speakers.


That’s usually a remedy for an overly bright system, the opposite of OP’s problem.

Jimbo, what are you using as a source?

Also what amp have you driving the Diamonds?

Are the speakers both in the corner too? (Ie either side of Hifi?)
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 02:10 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
The Artist wrote:


Maybe try a rug on the floor and for a test, you can hang some thick material on the walls behind the speakers.


That’s usually a remedy for an overly bright system, the opposite of OP’s problem.

Jimbo, what are you using as a source?

Also what amp have you driving the Diamonds?

Are the speakers both in the corner too? (Ie either side of Hifi?)

Yes, the speakers are in the corner either side of the HiFi in a very small living room. Like I said, I'm not unhappy with the sound but I wondered if it could be better. I was also just wondering whether I'm not driving the speakers hard enough, ie. low volumes because neighbours.

I started with a Cambridge Audio Azur 651A amp which now only drives the Sony turntable because I bought a mini Denon DM41 CD/radio/Bluetooth/amp. I've also got a Yamaha sub-woofer on a low setting (say 2/10) which gives a nice subtle addition.
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The Artist
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PostPosted: 06:18 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
The Artist wrote:


Maybe try a rug on the floor and for a test, you can hang some thick material on the walls behind the speakers.


That’s usually a remedy for an overly bright system, the opposite of OP’s problem.

Jimbo, what are you using as a source?

Also what amp have you driving the Diamonds?

Are the speakers both in the corner too? (Ie either side of Hifi?)


I am by no means an expert but a friend had muddy bass issues and he put some baffle material behind his speakers and it helped quite a bit. I will be following this thread with interest.
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Poseidon
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howling Terror wrote:
Maybe your hearing is slightly impaired..maybe your room is too dead....


Me and my dad used to have issues EQing his hi-fi when I was younger. I'd set it beautifully balanced (at least, to my ears), but he'd complain it was too boomy (I'm no bass junkie, far from it, even as a youngster I was listening to the likes of Johnny cash, Ray Charles, John lee hooker to name a few). He'd mess with it and it would be painfully shrill from having the bass dialed out and the top end increased. Then my grandad would come round and dial pretty much all the low end out and damn near put the windows through with the brittle high end he set. Hearing range changes with age and the top end is usually the first to go.

Worried I'd end up the same way, however I've just got rid of my fender amp (blackface) because it was just so bright. Took a lot of effort to dial out the top end to the point that I liked the tone. Getting a marshall to replace it as people say the marshall is "muddier" when compared to fender, which seems to be what I'm after.
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Andy_Pagin
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PostPosted: 14:32 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

This sprung to mind
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rStkrVhMHs
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 03 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A blanket hung behind the system seemed to take out some of the bass, if anything. Small difference though.

I fear Howling Terror and Poseidon are right; * it's my old age! Crying or Very sad Or I've just got too much time on my hands. Back to work tomorrow though.

* -and Andy Pagin. Smile

I'd try relocating out of the corner but it'll mess up the rest of the room, and I can't face all those cables again. That would all just be experimental, it's good enough as it is. A quick burst while the neighbours were out suggests the sound fills out quite nicely at greater volume.

Interesting. Thanks all.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 04 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Artist wrote:



I am by no means an expert but a friend had muddy bass issues and he put some baffle material behind his speakers and it helped quite a bit. I will be following this thread with interest.


Putting some bass absorbing material, or an random texture behind between speakers can cure bass problems, can also look at heimholtz resonators, but adding a carpet in place of wooden floor won't help with lack of sparkle. Placing too much absorption can have the opposite effect. Placing a proper bass trap may help, but you would need more than is practice given that placing a driver in a corner can amplify the bass around 8x and especially the problem frequencies.

You can try and correct the room, but the corner placement is likely to be the biggest culprit, passive room correction can be costly and not very domestically acceptable, active room treatment using electronics could end up costing more than Jimbo’s system.

To Jimbo, are you sure both tweeters are working?

The positioning won’t help, can you move one of the speakers further away? I guessing it’s not practical though. You mentioned trying different amps, have you considered different speakers?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 05 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Analogkid wrote:
are you sure both tweeters are working?

Yes they are, and they're both connected with the correct polarity and in-phase, by which I mean positive amp output to positive speaker input.

Analogkid wrote:
The positioning won’t help, can you move one of the speakers further away?

I tried that but it doesn't really work with the room in terms of sound or furnishings. I need a new, bigger house, that's the answer!

Analogkid wrote:
You mentioned trying different amps, have you considered different speakers?

I reckon these Wharfedale's are pretty similar to my old '80s Aiwa SX-7s which I retired a couple of years ago, but that's from memory. I know Wharfedale would be horrified! That old Aiwa system cost me the best part of a month's wages back then so it was quality. It was also one of my first purchases.

The original post was just pondering whether a new gadget would be worthwhile to optimise the sound, but the consensus seems to be that it's not worth it and no one uses equalisers for listening these days, only recording.

Now tell me about tape decks... I'm kidding.
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Analogkid
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 05 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a cheapish solution, I tried one years ago, but you end up continually tweaking it coz you can.

https://www.gear4music.com/PA-DJ-and-Lighting/Behringer-DEQ2496-Ultracurve-Processor/6FP?origin=product-ads&gclid=CjwKCAiAudD_BRBXEiwAudakX_Dt_Zbcfx5tWMnbZRwLzs2cToXGPTCIzvU6LAlm5izgogE0jbbttRoCo0UQAvD_BwE
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 82 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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