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99 Fazer 600 - Footpeg bracket bolt (replace or keep?)

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NJD
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: 99 Fazer 600 - Footpeg bracket bolt (replace or keep?) Reply with quote

Attempted to remove the hex bolt that secures the riders foot-peg to the bracket in order to lubricate the shift lever pivot point and rounded it off, yay.

Originally the impact gun failed to remove it after a few long bursts, so I got a more powerful impact and then rounded the head (bit probably moved). Attempting to chisel a slot to hammer it round by hand also failed, as did attempting to drill it out (although I'm not smart enough for that).

I sprayed silicone grease in externally instead (as opposed to multi purpose by hand out of a tub) and left it at that. Functions as it should.

Would you replace the unit, or just spray silicone to lubricate as and when needed and live with the bodge?

Easy enough part to replace as a unit from eBay, but can't decide if I really want to throw twenty quid at it for that purpose.

Combination of factory blue Loctite (not much left), road grit and installing it with an impact last time is why it wont come out.

https://i.postimg.cc/QxS9rFRM/footpeg-lh.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/2SK1VPjR/sidestand.png
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't you put a bar through the footpeg bracket and unscrew it from that side? Heat it first.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Couldn't you put a bar through the footpeg bracket and unscrew it from that side? Heat it first.


Sadly not, no.

The foot-peg itself is riveted in and even if the foot-peg were removed the bolt isn't accessible from the other side (see below someone elses picture):

https://i.postimg.cc/YC93cKDJ/footpeg.jpg
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. do those flats on the footpeg bracket engage with anything? If not and the bracket is free to rotate, you could put a big shifting spanner on it where that rivett is and unscrew it.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
The foot-peg itself is riveted in and even if the foot-peg were removed the bolt isn't accessible from the other side (see below someone elses picture):

https://i.postimg.cc/YC93cKDJ/footpeg.jpg

Drill it as you tried before. My guess is that you were using a biggish bit, maybe 8mm or so, and the tip (which has no real cutting edges) "grounded" on the bottom of the socket, and would not go further.

Make a small pilot hole, perhaps 2-3mm wide and deep in the centre of the socket, then drill off the head with your bigger bit. Make the pilot hole a little deeper as you go if you need to. Then you can withdraw the footrest. Then you can get a bit of heat on the bolt area, grip the bolt in your vice, and unwind the remains of the bolt.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Ok. do those flats on the footpeg bracket engage with anything? If not and the bracket is free to rotate, you could put a big shifting spanner on it where that rivett is and unscrew it.


Yes, its locked into place. The part of the footpeg I have circled in red is flat (and the rest round) and has to be placed into the flat bit (top middle hole on the bottom picture) and is, I assume, therefore locked in place.

https://i.postimg.cc/hPSLRW3K/bracket2.jpg

Top middle hole in picture below is where red part circled above slots into.

https://i.postimg.cc/KvJnZqdB/bracket.jpg

As I say entire units (bracket, footpegs, linkage) can be had on ebay for £15 upwards, but I think the fact the bolt is blue loctited in is always the crux of attempting to lube the linkage (and brake pedal on other side.. perhaps their meant to be replaced and not reused).

~

Riejufixing wrote:
Drill it as you tried before. My guess is that you were using a biggish bit, maybe 8mm or so, and the tip (which has no real cutting edges) "grounded" on the bottom of the socket, and would not go further.


Sounds about right. I've only got a cheap Aldi set of drill bits that has silver and gold drill bits in. Used a gold one, I think, and felt it dig a little deeper into the head but stopped and felt the bit was probably too blunt to work anymore so gave up. Also I didn't have cutting oil (maybe not needed) or heat source so was probably limited with what I could do.

Riejufixing wrote:
Make a small pilot hole, perhaps 2-3mm wide and deep in the centre of the socket, then drill off the head with your bigger bit. Make the pilot hole a little deeper as you go if you need to. Then you can withdraw the footrest. Then you can get a bit of heat on the bolt area, grip the bolt in your vice, and unwind the remains of the bolt.


Ah, interesting technique.

You do mean make a pilot hole with one of the below, right? As in that's the method I was trying (hence why I say i'm not smart enough at present for drilling.. lack of experience in this area Laughing ).

https://i.postimg.cc/CL1R4FQn/chisel.jpg

So make a small hole with one of those, drill deep with small bit then use large drill bit to literally destroy the large bolt head so it will detach the bracket from the foot-peg and then deal with remains of bolt in foot-peg separate?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make a little hole in the borrom of the hole in the bolt (which I assume used to take an allen key), using a small one of your Aldi twist bits (which work well enough for me... Smile ), and use a larger twist bit to drill away the head, slowish drill speed. Oil is always good, you don't need anything special for this, a drop or two of engine oil, or even cooking oil, would be OK. The reason not to go too deep with your pilot hole is so that you don't make the bolt's shank into a tube, weakening it for when you clamp it up in your vice or whatever.

Edit: If you look at the end of one of your bigger bits, you will see why a pilot hole is needed. There's no cutting edge on the very middle portion.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the diameter and depth of that semi-recessed bolt allowed I'd have at it with a Dremel grinding disc. Cut a neat slot for a flat-head screwdriver bit.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Edit: If you look at the end of one of your bigger bits, you will see why a pilot hole is needed. There's no cutting edge on the very middle portion.


Helpful, thanks.

Going to attempt to source a new (used) assembly (bracket, foot-peg and shift lever) before attempting as I'm going to need a new bolt anyway and currently have an offer that isn't too far away from what it would cost for the price of a brand new bolt (+ delivery) anyway (£8 for the bolt or £13 for an entire used assembly). See what the seller says re: is your bolt seized and will go from there.

As I say despite being damaged what I have works for now, so want to ensure I have what I need should I manage to get the bolt out so I don't end up half way through a job.

Weather looks like it may be crap in the coming days, and so it may be a moment or two before I can re-attempt a fix and update. Thumbs Up

~

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
If the diameter and depth of that semi-recessed bolt allowed I'd have at it with a Dremel grinding disc. Cut a neat slot for a flat-head screwdriver bit.


I tried a beefier version by attempting to hammer in a slot with the chisel and bang it round but had no luck. As I say I had an impact gun on it at top speed for a good few seconds and didn't have a hint of rotation. Then I got the snap-on out and it just minced it. Laughing

Drilling it may be the only way as above old blue loctite, being installed with an impact gun and road grit has it together quite tight.
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Last edited by NJD on 20:11 - 17 Jan 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:09 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
As I say despite being damaged what I have works for now, so want to ensure I have what I need should I manage to get the bolt out so I don't end up half way through a job.

Yes, were it me, I am not sure I'd bother unless I really needed to. Still, what a PITA when things like that won't undo.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Yes, were it me, I am not sure I'd bother unless I really needed to. Still, what a PITA when things like that won't undo.


Aye, is why I put it back on the bike and lubricated it with spray from the outside and asked if it was really worth the effort here.

Learning experience nonetheless, and in truth since it is an old Fazer and I am using it through winter it isn't my first, and no doubt my last, experience of jobs that look simple in planning but turn out not to be. Laughing

Should keep me busy during some time away from work (weather permitting). Laughing
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Robby
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 17 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would lubricate something that with white lithium spray grease. Comes out of the can as liquid and penetrates nicely, then dries to normal grease. Also makes a mess.

It works. You can get lube in there. Change it out if it bothers you, but use some penetrating oil on all the other fasteners before attempting to undo. It looks like the classic Japanese bike scenario of fairly soft fasteners, locktite, corrosion, and over-torqued.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 10:14 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lubricate your facking impact gun and drop it in the bin.
🤣

If you can't drill the hoowur out it may be poor access?
Shite Bits.
Shite Drilling machine.
Shite Driller.
If the part you want to drill is too hard (usually not really hard but more like tough (google material properties). A 'harder' bit is required. Possibly coz initial efforts failed to drill out the part but successfully work-hardened the surface for you.
A standard bit may struggle to penetrate that surface.

You need a hard bit. But they are expensive so you modificate the tip of a masonry bit (Just the tip) to make them cut as opposed to impact (as they are designed to).

Don't go too fast. SPEED AND FEED the most important rules for drilling (anything, hair or nae hair.)
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Arfa__
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't have much else to say on trying to make do and mend. But I've just had a root through my parts box in shed from when I had a 2003 FZS600. Don't have a left hand peg, unfortunately, but got this stuff which you're more than welcome to have.

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/yamaha_fzs600_spares.jpg

That's a right hand peg (with good rubber), left hand peg hanger bracket and bit of the gear shift lever.
Also got a very shabby 2003 'FoxEye' right hand mirror, a used throttle cable and some random used clutch plates and springs.

If it's of any use to you, let me know you can have it, just collect from Dagenham or cover postage.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Re: 99 Fazer 600 - Footpeg bracket bolt (replace or keep?) Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
installing it with an impact last time is why it wont come out.


Shocked What on earth made you do that up with a rattle gun?

I'd drill increasingly larger holes until I could get a stud extractor in there. Using the stud extractor in a ratchet, not a rattle gun or drill.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
Lubricate your facking impact gun and drop it in the bin.
🤣


That's no way to treat a snap-on, but that being said it was the Ryobi that wouldn't budge it and I only got the "big-un" out because the prolonged noise and failure to loosen was going to my tits in.

Also may have been because I was using a non-impact 1/2 to 3/8 adapter and non-impact hex bit. Yes, yes, I know: normal bits aren't really made for impact guns. Might get a set of impact hex key bits (always something Rolling Eyes Laughing )

Plus the head of the bolt has an unusually shallow head / depth.

Arfa___ wrote:
If it's of any use to you, let me know you can have it, just collect from Dagenham or cover postage.


I'll PM you shortly as you never know what you'll need one day and I'm always happy to hoard and annoy 'er. Laughing

Give me a moment, mind, in the middle of one or two things today.

edit: I'd be looking at postage.

wr6133 wrote:
What on earth made you do that up with a rattle gun?


Im'z a nobber. Still not as bad as my habit of snapping off banjo bolts on ZR7S calipers by over tightening them back when I had one (saying that the bolt snapped in half and the thread was fine so may have been cheap bolts from wemoto). Laughing

I remember having trouble tightening it up and couldn't get purchase with it loose (detached from bike), and on the bike the swingarm was in the way / no way you'd loosen or tighten it. May have been that it wasn't located properly (the footpeg in the bracket), and also I couldn't reach 55 nM with a torque wrench without it in a vice so went with the impact (probably one too many times).

Installed the other side the same way and it came out no problem not so long ago (until next time... Laughing ).

Cheaper to replace than the entire thing than add to the tool kit in this case so will leave as is for now but probably look at replacing and then repairing / keeping as spares once sorted. Will look into drilling as limited experience at present.

On the plus side every part on the mk1 fazer 600 is about ten pound compared to other bikes so I don't mind being ham fisted with it. Laughing
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

NJD wrote:
Still not as bad as my habit of snapping off banjo bolts on ZR7S calipers by over tightening them back when I had one (saying that the bolt snapped in half and the thread was fine so may have been cheap bolts from wemoto). Laughing


I've done similar on Banjo bolts Laughing

It's worth having a set of these, if all other methods fail you then have them to hand. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-AK8181-Multi-Spline-Screw-Extractor-Set-10pc/383653222922?hash=item5953839a0a:g:hCUAAOSwxuNfZLJy
Only time I've had them fail was a mirror mounting on a bike made in 1977 where the bolt must have been so corroded to the threads the entire mounting bent and twisted.
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NJD
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 18 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
It's worth having a set of these, if all other methods fail you then have them to hand. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-AK8181-Multi-Spline-Screw-Extractor-Set-10pc/383653222922?hash=item5953839a0a:g:hCUAAOSwxuNfZLJy
Only time I've had them fail was a mirror mounting on a bike made in 1977 where the bolt must have been so corroded to the threads the entire mounting bent and twisted.


I've saved them, and will look around as I like a good bargain.

I've got a set of Sealey Lock-On Hex bits (as in actual socket bits not the allen key set version) but that proved useless here as the head was too rounded out. Imagine screw extractors are less of a gimmick. Laughing
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