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chickenstrip
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 Posted: 21:16 - 05 Dec 2022  Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | renewable reserves |
What are these?
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Islander
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| Posted: 22:31 - 05 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 22:49 - 05 Dec 2022  Post subject: |
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Ok, some of my visions for an independant Scotland. Most of these things will be expensive in the short term but work out cheaper than what is currently going on over a long term. Building a solid foundation for future growth.
State controlled renewable energy. Private companies can afford to errect windfarms and make it pay, the state should be able to do it cheaper and run it on a cost to supply basis.
Coherent energy policy. Locate high demand industries near the site of generation (or ideally vice-versa). Encourage flexability for production to follow peak generation.
Social housing run as a housing association. Rent to buy encouraged. Any profits to be ring-fenced back into more social housing.
Universal healthcare to be retained. Social care to be rolled up into the NHS budget and under its control to reduce bed blocking and encourage good social care provision. Quite possibly a reduced scope of provision, certainly with regard to state funded "lifestyle" procedures. Strong emphasis on preventative medicine.
Massively reduced military spend, we're not into international willy-waving or force projection so defence force and apply for nato membership, Comply with minimum requirements for such.
Icelandic/Nordic style fisheries policy. They're our fish, we're happy to sell them to you.
Nordic style social fund for any remaining fossil fuel revenues.
Up the game with education. Build the future. Concentration on STEM subjects. Fully funded but reduced number higher education on a merit based system. More provision for skills-based techincal education. Possibly universal free school meals.
Less emphasis on subsidised childcare. Parents should be looking after their kids. Funding childcare so a parent can go to work for less than the childcare costs is madness. Encourage instead higher flexability, staggered rotas, work-based childcare provision. Schools to be used more during holidays.
Drop the problematic and ludicrously expensive and ineffective class A drug rehab programmes. Provide addicts with clean drugs and needles, get them back into society and kill the illegal market with one move. Rehab provision and support for when they are ready to take that decision.
Early intervention young offender programmes to be rolled out. Some third sector offenders programmes have a 70% reduction in reoffending, keep them out of the jails but not by just slapping them on the wrist.
Protectionist agriculture policy. Enforce highest standards of welfare and environmental practice. Tax heavily or block any imports which don't meet the same standard.
Same for manufacturing.
Ok. there's more but that's your 20 minutes.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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M.C
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stinkwheel
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Islander
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Islander
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| Posted: 23:46 - 05 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | Ok, some of my visions for an independant Scotland. Most of these things will be expensive in the short term but work out cheaper than what is currently going on over a long term. Building a solid foundation for future growth.
State controlled renewable energy. Private companies can afford to errect windfarms and make it pay, the state should be able to do it cheaper and run it on a cost to supply basis.
Coherent energy policy. Locate high demand industries near the site of generation (or ideally vice-versa). Encourage flexability for production to follow peak generation.
Social housing run as a housing association. Rent to buy encouraged. Any profits to be ring-fenced back into more social housing.
Universal healthcare to be retained. Social care to be rolled up into the NHS budget and under its control to reduce bed blocking and encourage good social care provision. Quite possibly a reduced scope of provision, certainly with regard to state funded "lifestyle" procedures. Strong emphasis on preventative medicine.
Massively reduced military spend, we're not into international willy-waving or force projection so defence force and apply for nato membership, Comply with minimum requirements for such.
Icelandic/Nordic style fisheries policy. They're our fish, we're happy to sell them to you.
Nordic style social fund for any remaining fossil fuel revenues.
Up the game with education. Build the future. Concentration on STEM subjects. Fully funded but reduced number higher education on a merit based system. More provision for skills-based techincal education. Possibly universal free school meals.
Less emphasis on subsidised childcare. Parents should be looking after their kids. Funding childcare so a parent can go to work for less than the childcare costs is madness. Encourage instead higher flexability, staggered rotas, work-based childcare provision. Schools to be used more during holidays.
Drop the problematic and ludicrously expensive and ineffective class A drug rehab programmes. Provide addicts with clean drugs and needles, get them back into society and kill the illegal market with one move. Rehab provision and support for when they are ready to take that decision.
Early intervention young offender programmes to be rolled out. Some third sector offenders programmes have a 70% reduction in reoffending, keep them out of the jails but not by just slapping them on the wrist.
Protectionist agriculture policy. Enforce highest standards of welfare and environmental practice. Tax heavily or block any imports which don't meet the same standard.
Same for manufacturing.
Ok. there's more but that's your 20 minutes. |
Your main points align pretty much with my own thoughts on this. Nordic style drip down government and policies are the way to go.  |
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M.C
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| Posted: 00:02 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: |
Various attempts at justifying stereotypical pish |
No attempts at refuting them.
| Islander wrote: | | M.C wrote: |
You pulled a figure out your arse, which I corrected, and then when I again referenced it being out by a trillion you added a 1 to your incorrect figure.
You can't possibly be that thick to think that was going to work? |
I owned up to an honest mistake, apologised for it, corrected it and presented the same analysis with corrected numbers. If you can't accept that and move on then the problem lies with you I'm afraid. |
THEY WEREN'T CORRECTED, that's the f'ing point, and do you genuinely think you can be out by a trillion and provide 'the same analysis'?
It's the most lazy and arrogant thing I've seen on here, since Adam Aarons reversed the video of a wiper screeching across a visor to try and fool people it moved both ways.
You had the referendum, that was my sodding point. I was trying to uphold some principles, regardless of the outcome of either recent referendum.
Saying sure do whatever to get rid of you wouldn't be a principled position. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:09 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | Ok, some of my visions for an independant Scotland. Most of these things will be expensive in the short term but work out cheaper than what is currently going on over a long term. Building a solid foundation for future growth.
State controlled renewable energy. Private companies can afford to errect windfarms and make it pay, the state should be able to do it cheaper and run it on a cost to supply basis.
Coherent energy policy. Locate high demand industries near the site of generation (or ideally vice-versa). Encourage flexability for production to follow peak generation.
Social housing run as a housing association. Rent to buy encouraged. Any profits to be ring-fenced back into more social housing.
Universal healthcare to be retained. Social care to be rolled up into the NHS budget and under its control to reduce bed blocking and encourage good social care provision. Quite possibly a reduced scope of provision, certainly with regard to state funded "lifestyle" procedures. Strong emphasis on preventative medicine.
Massively reduced military spend, we're not into international willy-waving or force projection so defence force and apply for nato membership, Comply with minimum requirements for such.
Icelandic/Nordic style fisheries policy. They're our fish, we're happy to sell them to you.
Nordic style social fund for any remaining fossil fuel revenues.
Up the game with education. Build the future. Concentration on STEM subjects. Fully funded but reduced number higher education on a merit based system. More provision for skills-based techincal education. Possibly universal free school meals.
Less emphasis on subsidised childcare. Parents should be looking after their kids. Funding childcare so a parent can go to work for less than the childcare costs is madness. Encourage instead higher flexability, staggered rotas, work-based childcare provision. Schools to be used more during holidays.
Drop the problematic and ludicrously expensive and ineffective class A drug rehab programmes. Provide addicts with clean drugs and needles, get them back into society and kill the illegal market with one move. Rehab provision and support for when they are ready to take that decision.
Early intervention young offender programmes to be rolled out. Some third sector offenders programmes have a 70% reduction in reoffending, keep them out of the jails but not by just slapping them on the wrist.
Protectionist agriculture policy. Enforce highest standards of welfare and environmental practice. Tax heavily or block any imports which don't meet the same standard.
Same for manufacturing.
Ok. there's more but that's your 20 minutes. |
So you're beginning to understand why money matters, huh? 
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:20 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | renewable reserves...
Enormous hydroelectric potential, wind generation potential, Tidal power generation potential, solar power generation potential.
We already produce over 32GWh, roughly 25% of the entire UK renewable generation. That's really just scratching at the surface of what's available here. |
Yeah, they're talking about all this everywhere. So why is it it mostly still just talk then? I mean, if it gets done, I'll be mighty impressed, but the rhetoric has been dragging on for ages, and still nobody has become totally self-sufficient on renewables, not even close. And I'm talking about reliably, all year round at all times. What's the timescale for Scotland (since that's our subject here; I'd ask the same of anywhere else)?
It sounds like a massive infrastructure project to me - how's it to be paid for, especially since Scotland already receives more funding as part of the UK than it generates in tax revenues, so independence will lose you a chunk?
But don't get me wrong; if anyone can properly prove renewables as a reliable and main source of energy for an entire nation, I'm on board. If Scotland were the first to show how, I'd be happy for England and elsewhere to learn from you.
Edit: and 25% of bugger all is still bugger all
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!
Last edited by chickenstrip on 00:28 - 06 Dec 2022; edited 1 time in total |
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Islander
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| Posted: 00:21 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| M.C wrote: | | Islander wrote: |
I owned up to an honest mistake, apologised for it, corrected it and presented the same analysis with corrected numbers. If you can't accept that and move on then the problem lies with you I'm afraid. |
THEY WEREN'T CORRECTED, that's the f'ing point, and do you genuinely think you can be out by a trillion and provide 'the same analysis'?
|
Let me explain for the final time.
I quoted population numbers for the UK without Scotland and for Scotland. Those numbers are substantially correct. No amendment was required.
I quoted GDP values for the UK without Scotland and for Scotland. I made a mistake with the UK without Scotland figures, acknowledged the mistake, apologised for it and corrected it.
I then presented the corrected figures - with the UK without Scotland GDP value corrected.
The comparison stands. Of course it's not as good as the first set, but then again that was an error. They do, however, still stand up well which is again, stated in a corrected summary.
This is the corrected part of the post cut and pasted with the corrections emboldened:
| Quote: | The UK without Scotland has a population of 61.82 million
Scotland has a population of 5.5 million.
The UK GDP without Scotland is £1800 billion
Scotland's GDP is £170 billion.
I'd say taken per capita that's still quite respectable.
|
The comparison stands.
That's my last post on the matter. |
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Islander
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| Posted: 00:31 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | Islander wrote: | renewable reserves...
Enormous hydroelectric potential, wind generation potential, Tidal power generation potential, solar power generation potential.
We already produce over 32GWh, roughly 25% of the entire UK renewable generation. That's really just scratching at the surface of what's available here. |
Yeah, they're talking about all this everywhere. So why is it it mostly still just talk then? I mean, if it gets done, I'll be mighty impressed, but the rhetoric has been dragging on for ages, and still nobody has become totally self-sufficient on renewables, not even close. And I'm talking about reliably, all year round at all times. What's the timescale for Scotland (since that's our subject here; I'd ask the same of anywhere else)?
It sounds like a massive infrastructure project to me - how's it to be paid for, especially since Scotland already receives more funding as part of the UK than it generates in tax revenues, so independence will lose you a chunk?
But don't get me wrong; if anyone can properly prove renewables as a reliable and main source of energy for an entire nation, I'm on board. If Scotland were the first to show how, I'd be happy for England and elsewhere to learn from you. |
It's not just talk. We have decent hydro capacity already including a black start capable pumped storage station. There is ongoing wind generation development - turbines are going up all over the place including offshore. We have working tidal turbines and more in development. We have wave generators. Solar farms are springing up as well as microgeneration on household roofs.
We also have world leading R&D:
https://www.emec.org.uk
There are other places that are pioneering new technologies - Hydrogen production in Shetland is a good example. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 00:50 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | Solar farms are springing up as well |
I'm sorry, but...lol!
Solar farms in Scotland
Well, crack on. Not time for praise yet though; don't mistake potential for achievement 
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M.C
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| Posted: 01:10 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | Let me explain for the final time. |
You have the cheek to try and act like I'm being thick when I've explained it multiple times already.
| Islander wrote: | I quoted GDP values for the UK without Scotland and for Scotland. I made a mistake with the UK without Scotland figures, acknowledged the mistake, apologised for it and corrected it. |
You presented incorrect figures, I corrected you, you ignored it. I then mentioned it again and you tried to fudge your original numbers to make it look like you accidentally missed out a number... they were still wrong.
| Islander wrote: | I then presented the corrected figures - with the UK without Scotland GDP value corrected. |
As above, still wrong, the entire GDP of Scotland fits into your error.
| Islander wrote: | The comparison stands. Of course it's not as good as the first set, but then again that was an error. They do, however, still stand up well which is again, stated in a corrected summary. |
Not as good? You were out by £1.2 trillion, more than half the UK's GDP.
| Islander wrote: | The comparison stands. |
The comparison (which you've probably forgotten) was with London, and you decided to look at what Scotland generates, whilst ignoring the much higher amount spent on them... the tenet of any Scots nationalist. |
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stinkwheel
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 01:48 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
So you're beginning to understand why money matters, huh? |
And there was me thinking those were policies to improve sustainability, environmental responsability and social welfare. |
For free?
Anyway, you've got lots of ideas and that's good 
But there's still the thorny question of how you'll actually get free if Westminster doesn't want to let you go, and you've no powerful allies to campaign on your behalf? It isn't me that's stopping you
I notice Gordon Brown has been poking his nose in, supporting the Union, and Starmer seems to be listening to him. And you know the Tories will block you at every turn. I'd have a word on your behalf if I thought any of 'em would listen to me
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 02:04 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| stinkwheel wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: |
Anyway, you've got lots of ideas and that's good
But there's still the thorny question of how you'll actually get free if Westminster doesn't want to let you go, and you've no powerful allies to campaign on your behalf? It isn't me that's stopping you |
So we're in agreement, what is being done is inherantly unfair, undemocratic (in that in a representative democracy the government is supposed to represent the wishes of their electorate) and pure imperialism on behalf of the Westminster government? |
Imperialism? No, calm down chap The UK is a legal entity. But yes, I agree our current crop of politicians do not represent most of us.
But now can you answer my question? How are you actually going to get out of the Union? Can you outline the process from now to actual independence day? Given that Westminster doesn't want to let you go?
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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| Posted: 02:17 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | | chickenstrip wrote: | don't mistake potential for achievement |
I installed four panels in my field to test the potential. I've had almost 1MWh since I commissioned them in June and we haven't had that good a summer. They don't produce a lot at this time of year but the days are short and it tends to be more overcast. I'm pleasantly surprised and will definitely be looking to install some more. It's surprising how many people have them on their roofs here and how busy the installers are - and that's at around 59 degrees north. |
Don't mistake the personal for the national either, and especially not the two simultaneously
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 143 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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