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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 02:25 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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And if they get a "yes" from the majority of Scots, does that put them in an internationally legal position to exit the Union, whether Westminster says yes or not?
Let's face it; even years of terrorism, bloodshed and death didn't get NI out of the Union. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 02:41 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | M.C wrote: |
And they didn't for Brexit? Did that turn out to be representative of the British people? |
No, they didn't. |
No they didn't? They spent 9 million quid sending a leaflet to everyone's house, telling them the government wanted to stay in the EU, that's more on that one piece of propaganda than your entire wanky referendum budget... for both sides: https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/who-we-are-and-what-we-do/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/scottish-independence-referendum/campaign-spending-scottish-referendum
stinkwheel wrote: | There were groups supporting and campaigning for both sides within the majority party at the time. |
Yes because it was a divisive issue in the Tory party. Hence one of the reasons, with UKIP stealing their votes, for the referendum.
stinkwheel wrote: | Whereas labour and the tories both actively campaigned strongly for a no vote in the Independance referrendum. |
The SNP spent more than both of them and the Lib Dems combined. Do they just stay out of it in your idea of a democracy?
stinkwheel wrote: | Which neatly answers your question "Why the hell do you think we want to keep you?" |
We the people, one of the few things (I think) we agreed on was politicians don't represent ordinary people. |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 03:02 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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chickenstrip wrote: | And if they get a "yes" from the majority of Scots, does that put them in an internationally legal position to exit the Union, whether Westminster says yes or not? |
Interesting question. Possibly yes. They could potentially unilaterally declare independance. There is nothing in international law prohibiting it which was proven when the ICJ issued an advisory oppinion on Kosovos unilateral declaration of independance from Serbia in 2008. Then it's down to individual countries to recognise it.
Such a declaration would probably hold more sway if it was backed up by an internationally monitored open and fair referrendum, sanctioned by the opposing party or not.
It's how Rhodesia became Zimbabwe, which is relevant because it was formerly part of the British Empire and they didn't agree with it. Although Zimbabwe is probably not the most shining example of anything much.
It's also how Bangladesh, Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia came into existance.
Quote: | Let's face it; even years of terrorism, bloodshed and death didn't get NI out of the Union. |
There wasn't a majority in NI who wanted to leave the union. The terrorists represented a minority. It's a closerrun thing now though.
Even if there was a majority in favour of leaving, since their duly elected representatives are too childish to meet in assembly for long enough to even officially say what they want by passing a motion, it's not very likely to happen. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 03:12 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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It's funny...you have so many answers, and yet you're still not out
Oh to hell with it. Let's stop pussyfooting about and have a war! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Posted: 03:18 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: |
Yes because it was a divisive issue in the Tory party. Hence one of the reasons, with UKIP stealing their votes, for the referendum. |
So you made my point. The Tory party did not an agressive and well-funded anti-brexit campaign at the last referrendum. 45% of them campaigned for Brexit.
Quote: | The SNP spent more than both of them and the Lib Dems combined. Do they just stay out of it in your idea of a democracy? |
It's not what I said. I said it's what makes me think England/the English want to keep hold of Scotland. If they didn't want to keep hold of Scotland they had the option to either keep out of it or campaign for the yes vote. The did neither, they actively campaigned against it. ipso-facto, England wants to keep hold of Scotland.
Quote: | We the people, one of the few things (I think) we agreed on was politicians don't represent ordinary people. |
I think you add weight for the argument for leaving. Of course, you're stuck with them because you (the English) are either too apathetic to do anything about it, or you (yourself) are wrong and they do represent the ordinary people. ____________________ “Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 03:32 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
Oh to hell with it. Let's stop pussyfooting about and have a war! |
You might want to check where you stashed your nukes first. |
Lack of funding for the military probably means they won't work anyway - nothing else does in this country anymore ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 15:19 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | M.C wrote: |
Unless I'm mistaken it's Scottish Labour and the Scottish Conservatives. |
What? Both of them! |
Given independence, what factions do you think Scottish politics will break down into? What will the new political landscape look like? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Islander |
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stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 19:10 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
Given independence, what factions do you think Scottish politics will break down into? What will the new political landscape look like? |
It'll almost certainly be elected by some form of PR so there will be a variety of parties and a tendancy for no single party to have an outright majority. Coallitions will be the norm or voting groups formed around certain issues. There will probably be a much wider array of smaller parties.
There will be a pro-Euro lefty woke party made up from a lot of the SNP brigade and any remnants of labour politicians. It may retain the SNP label, which would be an irony if they had a distinctly non-nationalist agenda. They'll probably land up as the biggest party but wont be sufficiently big to act unilaterally, they will have to deal in negotiation and consensus.
I think labour and conservatives will pretty much disappear as political parties. There may be a version of labour left but it will be the old fashioned militant left type who will be loud but irrelevant.
There will be a religious right pro gaelic party.
There may be a bitter dregs pro unionist party.
There will be a far left, bordering on communist socialist party.
I wouldn't be suprised if some version of the lib dems makes a resurgance because they were always popular MPs in Scotland.
Greens have potential to make a good showing.
Hopefully something will form around the centre-right area which has been obscured and unelectable since the 80's on account of being labelled as tories. They would need to be careful to fully distance themselves from the Tory party to gain any traction.
There will be a borderline comical hardline ultra-nationalist party determined to refight the jacobite rebellion. |
As you might imagine, this raises a lot more questions in my mind - might have to come back to this post later!
For now I'll just say on the point of PR without a strong majority - so going to look a lot more like Italy then? (without the sunshine and Ferraris ). ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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stinkwheel Bovine Proctologist
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 21:16 - 06 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: |
For now I'll just say on the point of PR without a strong majority - so going to look a lot more like Italy then? (without the sunshine and Ferraris ). |
But hopefully with less corruption, porn stars and Nazis. |
Well, you've already got two out of three in place. I'd prefer the third in place of those two ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 04:06 - 07 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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stinkwheel wrote: |
There wasn't a majority in NI who wanted to leave the union. The terrorists represented a minority. It's a closerrun thing now though. |
Latest poll shows apparently not: people in NI want to remain in the Union by a majority of almost 2:1. Apparently even 21% of Catholics in NI wish to remain in the UK (ARINS poll reported in the Irish Times).
Eire is different, unsurprisingly, until asked if they would support unification of Ireland if it meant changing the words of the Irish national anthem and altering the flag (!). Then it becomes marginal (slightly weird).
Interestingly, I think it is written into the GFA that it requires majorities in both the Republic and in NI for unification to take place, so going by this poll, it ain't going to happen any time soon. Of course, polls can be wrong, but with that kind of majority for remaining in the UK, you'd have to say it's a strong possibility that's the way a vote would go right now. ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:07 - 07 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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Current polling in Scotland shows SNP majority in freefall, Scottish Labour rising (almost neck-and-neck now), and ReformUK rising
Whilst the SNP are still (just barely) in the lead, that's still only 34% of Scots that support them. Not exactly a roaring endorsement for independence! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 16:50 - 07 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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You might be right, I might be right. Why don't you hold a referendum on it? ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip Super Spammer
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Posted: 17:35 - 07 Dec 2022 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | chickenstrip wrote: | You might be right, I might be right. Why don't you hold a referendum on it? |
Well they did but the result was wrong |
Yeah, but things have changed since then! ____________________ Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 140 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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