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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Okay, so this is the political section but is there anything Scotland has going for it that one can go "ha! this is ours and you can't have it!!!" I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 13 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Okay, so this is the political section but is there anything Scotland has going for it that one can go "ha! this is ours and you can't have it!!!" I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking


Don't start me Pal. 🙄

The Government do not speak for all Scottish people.
They won favour by appealing to the Braveheart fanbois/girls not really by having a useable manifesto.
Anything major they tackle ends in an extortionate disaster.
They have two ferries in construction presently with cost exponentially higher than projected when contracts were agreed. And no one in government seems to be tracking this or cares much.
Probably coz it doesn't come out of their pockets.
And probably coz they're siphoning funds from elsewhere to finance this.
And probably coz some kick-back is involved.

Need anyone mention The Infamous Skye Bridge Disaster (A Labour Gov/Croanies Scheme.)
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:10 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Okay, so this is the political section but is there anything Scotland has going for it that one can go "ha! this is ours and you can't have it!!!" I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking


Hydro power. Whiskey urm........ An abiding culture of exceptionalism (all Scottish people invented TV and antibiotics and everything else since the discovery of fire).
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 12:25 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking


North sea oil revenue has diminished .. not least because of the price below US$ 60 which seriously erodes its viability / profitability ..

tourists in Scotland generates around £12 billion or 5% of total Scottish GDP... significantly more than oil revenue .. but a lot more fickle .. gonna be an excellent year this one .. would it be so great if they were independent country wit a hard border and their own currency ?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Copycat73 wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking


North sea oil revenue has diminished .. not least because of the price below US$ 60 which seriously erodes its viability / profitability ..

tourists in Scotland generates around £12 billion or 5% of total Scottish GDP... significantly more than oil revenue .. but a lot more fickle .. gonna be an excellent year this one .. would it be so great if they were independent country wit a hard border and their own currency ?


Hmm, looking at it that way...

Quote:
By far the largest is the services sector, comprising around 75% of Scotland’s economy in 2019. This is followed by production (mining and quarrying, manufacturing, electricity and gas supply, and water supply and waste; 18%), construction (6%) and agriculture, forestry, and fishing (1%).


https://fraserofallander.org/scottish-gdp-guide/

TBH the only thing England has going for it is London. Without it, probably much the same picture.

I suppose one might take Éire as a example of what you can do with a small Western economy in the modern world. Comparable in terms of size, population, GDP... I don't rate Scotland's chances of winning Eurovision though Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
TBH the only thing England has going for it is London. Without it, probably much the same picture.

I know what you mean but I couldn’t help equating that view with your location. There’s life outside the M25 you know. Laughing

Quote:
I suppose one might take Éire as a example of what you can do with a small Western economy in the modern world.

Massive emigration, huge EU subsidies and attractive but questionable tax schemes for big US companies.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
TBH the only thing England has going for it is London. Without it, probably much the same picture.

I know what you mean but I couldn’t help equating that view with your location. There’s life outside the M25 you know. Laughing


Yes, and I did live out there some time ago but just take the numbers:

Scotland: 5.5 million people, £170 billion GDP
Inside the M25: 15 million people, £500 billion GDP

It's bound to make things... unbalanced. Almost a country within a country, at least looking at it from an economics standpoint.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 16:56 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

Hmm, looking at it that way...


evidently the tourism is only part of the service industry ..

however this caught my eye
"in 2019 Scotland imported more goods and services than it exported, a difference valued at £7 billion." not a huge number but ..
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:40 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:

I suppose one might take Éire as a example of what you can do with a small Western economy in the modern world. Comparable in terms of size, population, GDP... I don't rate Scotland's chances of winning Eurovision though Laughing


Eire is nearly a second world country.

I'd rather look at the likes of Norway.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 14 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Better oil reserves and the sense to wisely invest the money when the going was good rather than just splurge it like Venezuela did.

It's a nice idea but you don't have any politicians concerned with the welfare of the people... on either side of the border Sad I suppose you could go with "all the oil money was stolen by Westminster, we want reparations after independence!"

https://i.imgur.com/gM2tyFJ.gif
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


Eire is nearly a second world country.

I'd rather look at the likes of Norway.


Remember the Celtic Tiger economies? Alex Salmond trotting around Eire making out that Scotland could be like some Saudi Arabia of the North if only we were free? Then the 2008 crash came and Eire was bankrupt. The SNP keeps a low profile over all that.

I'd go for Denmark if I could jump ship, however I'm eligible for an Oirish passport and in the event the SNP get the opportunity to turn Scotland into a wet version of Sudan I will also be eligible for a UK passport, so I'm quids (or Euros) in whatever happens. Happy days.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Better oil reserves and the sense to wisely invest the money when the going was good rather than just splurge it like Venezuela did.

[/img]


That's a sore point here in Aberdeen, fifty years of the Oil industry and all the city got out of it was a couple of shitty shopping centres, some council estates where if you see a brand new range rover it doesn't belong to a drug dealer and a by-pass that took forty years to construct. The current regime in Nuttyrood ignores the place for a combination of reasons, oil is anti-eco, the central belt is where the most voters are and there's a prejudice that everyone up here is on rockstar wages. So we now have one of the most impoverished local authorities in the country. I promote independence for Aberdeen and Shire.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
One of my most hated times at sea was when I was engineer on board the Drupa. Over a year of off loading oil from the Brent Spa oil field, day, night, calm or storm.

Then the dubious pleasures of some of the most wonderful shitholes in the UK to discharge to. Teeside, Stanlow, Grangemouth, Canvey island. The best was Sullom Voe (Slum Hoe as it was known in the fleet).

I did 3 trips on that ship, I was begging to get back to the sun after one. The North Sea in winter is one of my least favourite places.

https://www.picclickimg.com/d/l400/pict/114119919316_/POSTCARD-SHELL-TANKER-SS-Drupa-at-Brent-Spar.jpg
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Okay, so this is the political section but is there anything Scotland has going for it that one can go "ha! this is ours and you can't have it!!!" I can only think of great landscapes and North Sea Oil Thinking


To be honest, nah mate there's a whole lot of nothing here.

The SNP know their demographic - the public service workers and unemployed (or those dependent on benefits) and play to that opera. Unfortunately for Scotland a significant percentage of the population are unable to work due to being too young or too old (or unemployed/ long-term sick, etc). Then the working population is mostly employed in public services like the NHS, Central Government, Local Authorities, etc. The private sector is pretty small in Scotland comparatively with England.

The value of oil is a total misnomer. I am extremely happy that my pension fund is not invested in petrochemical companies because Big Oil is going to be extinct or at least significantly shrunk before 2050.

If Scotland was to be independent it would need to become the new Switzerland: try to stir up investment (and by extension, employment) by having the lowest corporation, capital gains and income taxes in Europe. SNP would never do that though, they think the economy can be run on the sales of Tartan, Tweed, Whiskey and Oil...
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Britabroad wrote:
don't the Scots budget take more out of the pot than they put in even taking into account the North Sea oil revenue??


yes this is true .. its called the The Barnett formula .. which tops-up the budget short fall ..

oh and incidentally ... Scotland's implicit budget deficit increased in 2019-20 and was substantially higher than that of the UK as a whole. The difference between revenues raised and government spending in or on behalf of Scotland is estimated to have been 8.6% of GDP in 2019-20.26 Aug 2020 .. or in cash terms aprox. £7bn.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:47 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Britabroad wrote:
I never understood the Sturgeon mentality about cutting ties with the rest of the UK because don't the Scots budget take more out of the pot than they put in even taking into account the North Sea oil revenue??

I did try to make sense of the article below, but my attention deficit span is that of a gnat, so l went for my 2nd poo of the day so far..(midday here!)

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-51385684


Arithmetic has absolutely nothing to do with Der Fuhrer Sturgeons desire for independence. She would happily have everyone living in abject poverty as long as she has victory. Of course her and her multi million are cronies will be just fine.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:

The SNP know their demographic - the public service workers and unemployed


In my line of work I meet a lot of people in public service and they've been shafted regularly by the Scottish government. The obsession with paperwork and data collection and stats makes working in anything in the public sector a nightmare, not to mention all the cutbacks and starving local authorities of funding resulting in redundancies. An easy way for the opposition to stick it to the SNP is by taking up the public service workers grievances.

Your actual never worked never will work life on the brew types are either dont give a shit and don't vote in anything or if flag waving Not-brave-enough-to-get-a-job-hearts are such a small number they hardly count.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 15 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I never understand why the SNP aren’t properly challenged on exactly how Scotland would manage economically outside of the UK. The sole example last time round was the currency question, and even that seemed to catch them unawares. A negotiated trial removal of the Barnett Formula (itself intended only as a temporary measure, and since regretted by the originator) would be a start. See how they get on.

It seems the SNP would rely on a gentle release until Auntie EU scoops them up. The thing is, whilst the EU’s mantra is always “More EU!” can they afford another mouth to feed? The remaining net contributors might stretch to it, the other charity cases might resent someone else taking a piece of the pie. The Spaniards would prevent it via the unanimity rule because they don’t want to set a precedent for Catalan’s breakaway.

If EU membership isn’t certain the SNP need to define how they’d make up the shortfall in Scottish coffers or explain how an impoverished independence is a victory (which it might be). Some would have made the same case with respect to Brexit but the difference is the UK was in a position of strength as a net contributor.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Britabroad wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Der Fuhrer Sturgeons desire for independence.

Why does she keep getting voted in, because even as an outsider it's clear she is permanently menstruating!


She plays the role of the sensible no nonsense working class wifie. It's a very popular image, for some reason we brits like being bossed about by a matriarch. The truth is she's a very wealthy distinctly middle class zealot but that's obscured by the carefully constructed image. Boris Hawhaw plays on a similar riff except he taps into a bizarre fondness for comedy posh boys from the nether regions of Bertie Wooster novels. UK politics is like a mash up between The Broons and Lord Snooty.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:47 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I never understand why the SNP aren’t properly challenged on exactly how Scotland would manage economically outside of the UK.


The smart thinking is that at the moment the SNP is doing a good job of tearing itself apart over the Alex Salmond gropey gropey case but I think the real reason is the opposition on the left in Scotland is very poorly organised and it's an area where Keir Starmer really needs to assert some influence. The tories in Scotland are doing quite well locally but their blonde idiot is a bit of a hinderence, however I suspect they're just keeping their powder dry in anticipation of the coming war.
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Grizly
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: How much of the North Sea is Scottish? Reply with quote
How much of the North Sea is Scottish?

UN convention is to simply extend the land border - hmmm - it seems that some of the North Sea belongs to the English.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: Re: How much of the North Sea is Scottish? Reply with quote
Grizly wrote:
How much of the North Sea is Scottish?

UN convention is to simply extend the land border - hmmm - it seems that some of the North Sea belongs to the English.


Does that mean they get part of the Isle of Man?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Isle of Man is a self-governing entity, it has its own territorial waters:

wikipedia wrote:
The Isle of Man has a coastline of 160 km (99 mi), and a territorial sea extending to a maximum of 12 nm from the coast, or the midpoint between other countries. The total territorial sea area is about 4000 km2 or 1500 sq miles, which is about 87% of the total area of the jurisdiction of the Isle of Man. The Isle of Man only holds exclusive fishing rights in the first 3 nm. The territorial sea is managed by the Isle of Man Government Department of Infrastructure.


I could see a lot of horse-trading on the sea border if/when independence happens.

So are we saying that the SNP aren't particularly good or well liked but their opposition are weak? (Tories, Labour, Libtards) Or that Scotland needs more Scots-focused parties (glancing at the political make up of Northern Ireland.)
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 67 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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