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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 16 Feb 2021    Post subject: Re: How much of the North Sea is Scottish? Reply with quote
Grizly wrote:
How much of the North Sea is Scottish?

UN convention is to simply extend the land border - hmmm - it seems that some of the North Sea belongs to the English.


The border USED to come out along the line of the last section of the Tweed but England already did the dirty on that one and redefined the border, appropriating a huge area of traditionally "Scottish" territorial waters, back in the 90s or early 2000s.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:15 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
You're really selling it to me. Maybe the people of England, Wales & Northern Ireland should vote on whether Scotland is allowed to stay in the Union Wink
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


I could see a lot of horse-trading on the sea border if/when independence happens.

So are we saying that the SNP aren't particularly good or well liked but their opposition are weak? (Tories, Labour, Libtards) Or that Scotland needs more Scots-focused parties (glancing at the political make up of Northern Ireland.)


There's a whole area of international relations where countries argue over how to calculate national waters. One mile out? Three miles? Edge of the continental shelf? Etc wars start for less.

I think the SNP are genuinely popular but they play the populist card and that could be ripped up by a strong opposition prepared to call them out. I don't doubt the Scottish opposition parties are focused on Scottish issues but the problem is the London end.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The SNP are probably the only party who think of the Scots as an "Us" rather than a "Them".

I've said it before, there is a vacuum in Scotland for a slightly right of centre party which, if not overtly pro-independance, is at least strongly anti-Westminster. Outside the central belt, there are a lot of Scots who ought to be natural tory voters but the conservative partys attitude and past actions has effectvely removed them from being a viable contender in Scottish politics.

Labour and Lib Dem don't even know what they want with the former squabbling among themselves over if they should be a blair or corbyn type party and the latter trying to please everyone at once.

While I don't like them, the SNP is at least descisive in their agenda and when they go to Westminster, they loudly and clearly make the case for Scotland in a way I've never seen other MPs do.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
The SNP are probably the only party who think of the Scots as an "Us" rather than a "Them".

I've said it before, there is a vacuum in Scotland for a slightly right of centre party which, if not overtly pro-independance, is at least strongly anti-Westminster.


Don't people, groups, parties generally do better when they're "pro" something, rather than "anti" something? Better to work from a positive stance than a negative one?
Half the problem with today's politics seems to me to be attacking others, rather than coming up with good policy oneself. Of course if you think a government's policies are harmful, you challenge them, but that shouldn't be all you do. And I would suggest people are getting tired of politicians constantly telling them what they can't do, instead of ensuring they have the freedom to get on and live their lives.

I can't see what the SNP's positive vision is for Scotland in realistic, definitely achievable terms. Most of it seems to be wishful thinking. I've said it before - if Scotland were that brilliant, it wouldn't be waiting for independence or rejoining the EU to show it, whatever the obstacles.

Of course, that's not to say that anyone else is any better, but at least since Brexit, the UK government is forging ahead with trade deals and other international links that could be of some actual benefit to us. Boris is at least right in having a positive stance on this and what we might achieve, never mind what you might think of the man himself.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:22 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, I think if the SNP were doing so fantastically well for Scotland they could, without argument, say "being in the Union is holding us back!" independence would be done and dusted by now but it sounds a lot more like swings and roundabouts, north of the border Thinking
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Britabroad wrote:

I think there's more to Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson being in #10 than the Brits like happy-bad-hair-day-buffoons-in-a-suit!
The incompetence & cowardly resignations of previous PM's going back to smarmy Dave because "we" voted for Brexit has played a big part in the fact that Berty Wooster is making a laughing stock of UK politics.

Sorry for veering away from the menstrual one!


He was certainly the master of finding opportunity in chaos.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I think I said somewhere earlier, if you think Brexit was bad, Scottish independence negotiations will make that look a walk in the park from Scotlands point of view.

Think, all the levers will be with Westminster. If the government was at all anti it could put so many roadblocks in the way it would carry on for decades.

The best thing to do would be to wait for Lsbour to be in power, characterise Scots as an oppressed ginger haired minority race and get Diane and co. to agree to reparations for the highland cleansing and Edward carving up William Wallace for English entertainment. Rolling Eyes

Heaven knows they are stupid enough to go along with it.

Me? I'd send in the troops and hang Wee Willy Krankie from Edinburgh Castle walls in a gibbet as a warning but then I'm a nasty colonialist. Wink
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Yes, I think if the SNP were doing so fantastically well for Scotland they could, without argument, say "being in the Union is holding us back!" independence would be done and dusted by now but it sounds a lot more like swings and roundabouts, north of the border Thinking


They constantly trot out the "Union is holding us back" line but when asked to evidence this they just whitter on about north sea oil. They never really evidence anything and are so smug about their ground level support they don't think they have to.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 16:51 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
As I think I said somewhere earlier, if you think Brexit was bad, Scottish independence negotiations will make that look a walk in the park from Scotlands point of view.

Think, all the levers will be with Westminster. If the government was at all anti it could put so many roadblocks in the way it would carry on for decades.

The best thing to do would be to wait for Lsbour to be in power, characterise Scots as an oppressed ginger haired minority race and get Diane and co. to agree to reparations for the highland cleansing and Edward carving up William Wallace for English entertainment. Rolling Eyes

Heaven knows they are stupid enough to go along with it.

Me? I'd send in the troops and hang Wee Willy Krankie from Edinburgh Castle walls in a gibbet as a warning but then I'm a nasty colonialist. Wink


I think if there was independence then it wouldn't be long before some SNP lackey would be pouring petrol on Der Sturgeonfuhrers corpse around the back of the bunker.

I know you hate Labour but the last thing Labour want is to see the Union break up, its historically made them electable. So from your point of view the UK losing Scotland would pretty much insure the Tories stay in power indefinitely.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 17 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


I think if there was independence then it wouldn't be long before some SNP lackey would be pouring petrol on Der Sturgeonfuhrers corpse around the back of the bunker.

I know you hate Labour but the last thing Labour want is to see the Union break up, its historically made them electable. So from your point of view the UK losing Scotland would pretty much insure the Tories stay in power indefinitely.


Absolutely not true. I hate what it has become. A fringe left wing minoritys/students/extremists bleating party.

I might not have voted for old school labour very often but I had the utmost respect for their views and their ideas for helping the working man.

Present Labour is none of those things.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:24 - 18 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


Absolutely not true. I hate what it has become. A fringe left wing minoritys/students/extremists bleating party.

I might not have voted for old school labour very often but I had the utmost respect for their views and their ideas for helping the working man.

Present Labour is none of those things.


Sorry man my bad for misreading your position.
The modern Labour Party certainly seems to have backed itself into a corner but I do believe that within it there is still a core membership who hold to the sensible historical positions around giving support to the ordinary working people. I stopped voting Labour when Milliband took over but it was Corbyn who brought me back as he seemed to be genuinely interested in the poorer worker. He did get massively split over all the micro issues which seem to plague the left these days.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 18 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Anyway, the Turd Celtic Reich are getting a pasting in the Scottish parliament today on the subject of education https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2021-02-17.16.0&s=speaker%3A25509#g16.10

Even the Greens MP is sticking the knife in.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 18 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Anyway, the Turd Celtic Reich are getting a pasting in the Scottish parliament today on the subject of education https://www.theyworkforyou.com/sp/?id=2021-02-17.16.0&s=speaker%3A25509#g16.10

Even the Greens MP is sticking the knife in.


Greens lead with perfectly reasoned debate.

SNP reply with don't you know there's a war on? it's all down to The Bad Aids Rolling Eyes
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Jmoan
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Joined: 18 Nov 2015
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 19 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
The SNP are probably the only party who think of the Scots as an "Us" rather than a "Them".


As in they're happy to use us to trial whatever nonsense before passing it down to England or take
whatever nonsense they have come up with and make it worse for Scotland.

https://pics.me.me/brothersandsistersare-naturalenemies-like-englishmen-and-scots-orwelshmenand-scots-ornapaneseand-scots-oriscotsand-other-scots-damn-19324158.png
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 02 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Scottish independence isn't even a real thing because Scotland isn't a real country, it's more like two countries stuck together: Glasgow and the rest of Scotland. Or an alternative analogy is a person and its senient tumour. Personally I would offer the Tunnocks tea cake and her rapist former mate Al their referendum but on our terms: County by county! The Glasgow can vote Aye Oot! but the rest of the Scots won't have to put up with the stupid crap or worse still have to foot the bill.
Scotland population: 5.4 million
Glasgow population: 1.8 million
Given that Glasgow is full of anti-English alcoholics and heroin addicts its not a huge surprise that the independence vote is so close.

As for the Brexit line of argument, if the UK got the sort of financial settlement from the EU that Scotland gets from the UK the Brexit vote would have been almost impossible to win, almost as impossible as getting such a financial settlement in the first place.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:08 - 02 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Scottish independence isn't even a real thing because Scotland isn't a real country, it's more like two countries stuck together: Glasgow and the rest of Scotland. Or an alternative analogy is a person and its senient tumour. Personally I would offer the Tunnocks tea cake and her rapist former mate Al their referendum but on our terms: County by county! The Glasgow can vote Aye Oot! but the rest of the Scots won't have to put up with the stupid crap or worse still have to foot the bill.
Scotland population: 5.4 million
Glasgow population: 1.8 million
Given that Glasgow is full of anti-English alcoholics and heroin addicts its not a huge surprise that the independence vote is so close.

As for the Brexit line of argument, if the UK got the sort of financial settlement from the EU that Scotland gets from the UK the Brexit vote would have been almost impossible to win, almost as impossible as getting such a financial settlement in the first place.


This goes back to what political time machine you use to define the borders...

Edward the Elder (Alfred The Great's son, not "Tall Eddie" Hammer of the Scots) gave Constantine II a good kicking for no particular reason and at the time south east Scotland would probably have been classified as Northumbria, western isles under a Viking King (along with bits of Ireland) and the aforementioned Glasgow area would have been a separate Scottish Kingdom...

Anyhoo, you get the idea: historical precedents and all that.

Slightly related: my wife was filling out a form that ask nationality. "Shall I put UK?" Err... no, UK isn't a nationality! English, my love. Which leads me onto something contentious: is the allied term "British" really a nationality?

Quite often utilised by grubby foreigners non-UK subjects of the Queen it always seem to imply "fuck your England, Scotland, Wales, NI... nowt to do with me!" All of the benefits without having to conform to those tricky cultural norms like abolishing slavery or allowing women to vote.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 02 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems to me that the SNP don't actually want independence, just the threat of it so that they can hold people to ransom to get more funding and more power, but still be able to blame any and everyone for any short fall.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:59 - 10 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
You couldn't make it up

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-worker-accuses-two-mps-23625660

It's a very touchy feely party the SNP.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 10 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
What's the point of gaining power if you can't abuse your position and enjoy the fringe benefits? Hardly a revelation Rolling Eyes
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 12 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
What's the point of gaining power if you can't abuse your position and enjoy the fringe benefits? Hardly a revelation Rolling Eyes


The SNP try to style themselves as some kind of new politics of the modern world. They're always stuffing it up though and exposing themselves as the same old same old.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:16 - 12 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
What's the point of gaining power if you can't abuse your position and enjoy the fringe benefits? Hardly a revelation Rolling Eyes


The SNP try to style themselves as some kind of new politics of the modern world. They're always stuffing it up though and exposing themselves as the same old same old.


They can't even do it in style either. Just furtive little touchy feelys. Laughing

They should learn how to have a good scandal from past politicians, something like Piggate. Much classier. Thumbs Up
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 38 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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