VFR400 NC30 Advice

[Ianbus]

Hi Guys and Gals, new here and I am after a bit of advice.

I Have in my possession my Brother's 1989 Honda VFR400 NC30. He thinks I've sold her as he no longer had anywhere to store her, but I've "bought her" and I am in the process of bringing her back to her former glory and give her back to him as a total surprise!!

He bought her in 2003 for £1650, had a bump, replace the whole front end, then kind of lost interest. She's been stood for 14/15 years, in a shed.

My question is, what would you replace? Here's what I've bought already -

Oil Filter
Air Filter
Spark Plugs
Battery
Carburetor inlet rubbers
Brake hoses ( Braided )
Fork Seals
Front Wheel Bearings
Coolant Hoses
Clutch Plates

I plan to buy the following -

Tyres
Front/Rear brake pads
Rear Wheel Bearing

Would you guys buy the following? -

Caliper repair/seal kits
Engine Gasket set
Thermostat

I have a classic specialist who is willing to do the work. Any advice appreciated.
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Ian Mclennan

[MarJay]

Don't take the motor apart unless you need to.

Fork seals, oil, filter, air filter, tyres, battery... other than that work on condition.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[Ianbus]

[Robby]

If the clutch was slipping because someone put magnatec in it (a common problem 15-20 year ago) then it should start behaving once it has the right oil in there and has done a few miles/heat cycles. Don't do the clutch unless you have to, I have memories of people swearing a lot doing NC30 clutches. I think they worked back to front (compared to bikes of that time) and that confused people.

15 years means your biggest enemy is going to be rubber parts failing and metal parts corroding. On top of that, it was an old bike in the first place, so anything that was borderline when it was parked (like chassis bearings with minimal lube) will have corroded, and will wear out very quickly after the first ride.

I would be replacing the following as a matter of course:
- Brake lines, fluid, pads. Also stripping and cleaning the calipers to get rid of corrosion behind the seals. Might as well replace the seals if new ones are available at a reasonable price. No point saving money on brakes. Also cleaning out the master cylinder, the old brake fluid may have left horrible deposits.
- Tyres. Even if the ones on there look OK, and possibly behave OK in the dry, they can just slide out with no warning in the wet. Old hard tyres are dangerous.
- Fuel lines. Chances are that the ones on there are hard, cracked, full of petrol jelly and not suited for ethanol. Replace with modern ethanol-rated fuel line (probably thicker than the original). I tend to replace old brittle plastic T-pieces with brass. Fuel tap may also need a rebuild.

I would be checking and minded to replace:
- Steering headstock bearings. If they are well lubed still, no rust and no witness marks in the bearing shell then they can be re-lubed and used. If there is any doubt, replace.
- Swingarm bearings, suspension linkage bearings. At the very least check and re-lube. Suspension linkage bearings are a particular bastard because they're hidden out of the way and get all the road gunk thrown at them. Not uncommon for the steel bolt to saw its way through the seized bearing, then quickly wear away at the alloy linkage.

Then expect to have some fun with the fuel tank. It will be rusty inside, and contain some old fuel that is turning into varnish. I drain them, rinse, wash with a caustic soda fill, rinse again, then fill with dilute phosphoric acid to kill the rust. If you're lucky you end up with a clean, rust-free tank. If you're unlucky you have rust holes in the tank. The only really good solution then is another tank, or spending a lot on replacing rusty metal and respraying.

Get it safe, do the long-term servicing, then ride it and see what else needs fixing. Then sort out the cosmetics.

[jeffyjeff]

Good advice from Robby, he has pretty much covered everything you'll need to do to make the bike roadworthy again. I might emphasize the need to clean and re-lubricate any and all grease points. Over time, grease petrifies into a solid mass, and provides little lubrication. Recently removed the final drive on my 19 year old BMW to find the pivot bearing grease had hardened and the bearing rollers brinelled into the races. Once had a problem with the push-to-cancel turn signal switch on a '98 VFR; turned out to be hardened grease caused the mechanism to bind. Flushed with WD and relubed, the switch worked great for years afterward.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[pits]

Think Robby has pretty much nailed it, I am aware though that the inlet rubbers are a fucker to get on, I would probably also consider getting a reg/rec as well to have ready to go on.


With the tank you could send it off and have it coated inside, I haven't had one done, but maybe an option.
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Stinkwheel: You have no right to free speech
00:32:08 Blau Zedong: yes, i am a massive CB400 fan and collector
00:33:00 Blau Zedong: the CB400 is my favourite road bike

[jeffyjeff]

[Robby]

The inlet rubbers are going to be a pain in the arse. They can be softened for a few minutes by dipping them in hot water. They can softened for a few months by letting them soak for a few days in a 50/50 mixture of rubbing alcohol and wintergreen oil. Your wife may ask what you are doing with essential oils in the garage.
Alternatively, you may be able to get pattern replacements. If pattern replacements are available around £50 for a set, get them. Otherwise you may be looking at more like £150 for a set, which is where I try to find a way to fix what I have.

Tank liners are not something I recommend because I have had bad experiences in the past with petsealed tanks. Ethanol came along and softened the liner, came out line snakeskin. The current range of liners may be effective, but I don't know how long they will last, or how fuel may change and break them in the future.
My preference is always to get the tank interior back to clean metal, and then keep petrol in it to stop it rusting. I would never use a liner to fix pinhole leaks - that just means I know the tank is leaking, and I'm trusting a thin layer of epoxy to stop 15 litres of fuel being dumped over a hot engine and my legs.

Now that I'm not 18 and not consistently broke, I tend to prefer safety over cheapness. Leaky fuel tank, assuming I can't get a replacement, even outsourcing the work I'm expecting to pay under £200 for replacement metal to be cut, shaped and welded in. A morning's work for an old school railway arch engineering shop. The respray is probably going to cost more than that.

80s Japanese bike fuel tanks are a bit of a bugbear of mine. This is in no way scientific and based entirely on my own experience, but it seems that the steel used was thinner than in the 70s and early 80s, and the shapes got more complicated and used more narrow angles. So that's thinner metal which can rust through faster, more seams and narrow angles for moisture to hide and rust, and 40 years for all this to happen. 80s bikes also spent the last decade being worthless - values are only going up recently - so more likely to spend that time sitting unloved with half a tank of ethanol fuel gently absorbing water.

In case it wasn't clear, restoring bikes can become a very long and expensive process.

[Ianbus]

Thanks for all the replies guys, especially Robby. Yes, safety is paramount, I'm not 18 anymore either!

The mechanic that's hopefully doing it for me should know all this too. He's a classic specialist.
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Ian Mclennan

[Robby]

Ok, just make sure you have about £5k set aside if you want it fully restored.

[pits]

[Robby]

FWR have a set of 090s listed for £195. The issue is that not many manufacturers still make tyres for the 18inch rear.

Consumables are an easy problem to think about down the line. I would be making sure all of the model-specific unobtanium parts are ok first. Anything to do with the swingarm, fuel tank, front and rear subframes (the front one at least is steel from memory, so rust), maybe radiator although it may be common with some other bikes of that era.

It makes me somewhat jealous of the guy doing the restoration, because it's the sort of job I would love to do if someone else was paying.

[redeem ouzzer]

If you want to use better tyres the choice is NC35 rear (expensive as everyone wants them) or a modified Ducati 748/916 wheel. Both really need modified dogbones as well.
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Be a REAL MAN!

[Ianbus]

[Ianbus]

[Robby]

Aluminium alloy frame, swingarm, and probably rear subframe. Alloy engine cases, radiator, wheels.

Front subframe (the bit that supports the clocks, nose fairing, headlights) is usually steel, and a good place to check for evidence of a crash. Being steel they get bent, but can be bent back.

Fuel tank is certainly steel, as on the majority of bikes. Some bikes have plastic tanks, very occasionally you see an alloy one.

The fairings are likely quite brittle by now - it's 40 year old plastic that has absorbed a lot of UV over the decades. Remove them carefully. Reasonable quality fiberglass replacements are available (or at least were fairly recently).

The fuel tank is the bit I would be most careful with. A new replacement is likely to cost about a grand (Honda parts prices can be amusing), and a used replacement is a lottery.

There will also be some bits that are oddly expensive for what they are. You may come across the odd bearing which is non-standard, and only available from Honda or a really good bearing specialist (at a similar price).

You may want to budget in suspension improvements too. I don't know if this bike ran damper rod forks or cartridges, but if it runs damper rods then cartridge emulators are a very worthwhile upgrade for under £100. Rear shock is likely to be completely worn out by now (and not that good in the first place). You get what you pay for with shocks.

[Ianbus]

[bikenut]

I hope to god that none of the engine valves are not stuck open, caliper pistons and the clutch will probably be stuck, hope the old battery didn't split it's casing and dumped it's electrolyte on the frame ! Goto CMSNL to see the exploded views to see what's involved.

I bet your mech gas it on speed dial or similar.

I'm sure your bro will appreciate all your efforts.
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nuts about bikes

[Ianbus]

[pits]

I would imagine their stuff maybe out of your budget but you can also have a look at what Tyga offers, but I am pretty sure their prices are quite high, think my mate had to buy some panels for his Tyga VFR and it wasn't cheap
____________________
Stinkwheel: You have no right to free speech
00:32:08 Blau Zedong: yes, i am a massive CB400 fan and collector
00:33:00 Blau Zedong: the CB400 is my favourite road bike

[Robby]

[Ianbus]

Been around to check on her this morning, she has a full tank of fuel, will this help or hinder corrosion?

Also took a few pics
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Ian Mclennan

[Ianbus]

More
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Ian Mclennan

[Ianbus]

One more
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Ian Mclennan

[jeffyjeff]