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ZXR 750 J1 Help

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RickTaff
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Joined: 28 Jul 2016
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: ZXR 750 J1 Help Reply with quote

Meant to MOT bike today, so started her up, let her warm up on various levels of choke, until choke off. Temperature gauge needle was on the first red notch and she was idling ok, nice consistent note. (with choke off) The odd pop in the exhaust when she first started; but nothing out of the ordinary

So jumped on the bike, clutch in popped her into first, clutch out - found the bite point, but soon as i rolled on the throttle she died. Every single time. I think i even tried opening the throttle first and holding it at a steady RPM, for example say, 4k, and then found the bite, but as soon as the bite was found..... revs dropped like a stone and it cut out again

Im not the most mechanically gifted when it comes to bikes and have had 2 suggestions which i wanted to run by you guys, see which would you'd lean towards

1. Clogged main jets. [however some google searches reveal bike would idle really rough, if at all, if these were clogged]

2. Dodgy side stand switch

But I have had the bike on a paddock stand, roughly 2 months ago, with rear wheel in the air going through the gears, and it didn't cut out at all then when releasing clutch and rolling on throttle Confused Confused
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not main jets, you don't come on to mains until the throttle is over about 60%. If it were pilot jets, the bike would give a lumpy idle. If it were sidestand it would probably die as soon as you put it into 1st rather than when you let the clutch out.

It's quite a weird one. Is there a clutch interlock? Do you need to pull the clutch to start it? (probably not on such an old bike).
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bike free wheels then give it more fuel or less air (unwanted air) under load.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it firing on all cylinders? It doesn't sound like a fueling or interlock issue.

I'd suspect your only on 2 cylinders because either a plug, lead, cap or coil has failed
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Ste
Not Work Safe



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PostPosted: 17:21 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd have a look at that ram air hoses as if one of them has become loose then the bike would do something like what you're describing.
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Is it firing on all cylinders? It doesn't sound like a fueling or interlock issue.

I'd suspect your only on 2 cylinders because either a plug, lead, cap or coil has failed


Yes, its on all 4 cylinders. They all have spark.
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
It's not main jets, you don't come on to mains until the throttle is over about 60%. If it were pilot jets, the bike would give a lumpy idle. If it were sidestand it would probably die as soon as you put it into 1st rather than when you let the clutch out.

It's quite a weird one. Is there a clutch interlock? Do you need to pull the clutch to start it? (probably not on such an old bike).


If bike is in neutral, itll start as normal, no need to pull clutch in. Idles ok, with various levels of choke before warming up. Letting the clutch find the bite point and itll creep forward slowly as it should, just seems to get a bit arsey when throttle applied at bite point lol

If clutch pulled in while in first, kicking the sidestand down it cuts engine out instantly. Keeping it in first gear with clutch pulled in, i kicked the sidestand back up, hit the starter, and nothing

Dont know it that helps in your thinking Laughing Laughing Laughing


Last edited by RickTaff on 17:27 - 30 Jan 2021; edited 2 times in total
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
I'd have a look at that ram air hoses as if one of them has become loose then the bike would do something like what you're describing.


Bought the bike private, and when looking at an image of my bike, it has 2 hoover looking pipes going into the tank which apparently do sod all.

Previous owner took them off.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:27 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Was it working before?
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Was it working before?


Previous owner has had it off the road for a while, not sure how long exactly. He bought a new bike and this one was never used. So cleaned carbs when i bought it. Had it on a paddock stand, went through all the gears revving it and letting clutch out.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. It could be anything that has been ballsed up for a while.

To discount spark issues. Spray water onto the exhaust headers within a few seconds of starting it from dead could. If there's an issue there a couple of pipes will take a few seconds longer boiling off the water.

Sounds like you've been sold a dud, though.
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Okay. It could be anything that has been ballsed up for a while.

To discount spark issues. Spray water onto the exhaust headers within a few seconds of starting it from dead could. If there's an issue there a couple of pipes will take a few seconds longer boiling off the water.

Sounds like you've been sold a dud, though.


Thanks, will do. I'll give it rest of the weekend to sort, if not a guy i know few miles away can come take it away and fix it lol
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oilyrag
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PostPosted: 20:26 - 30 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try pulling away on the choke
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ThunderRat
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PostPosted: 00:42 - 31 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try it with the fuel cap open. May be an air lock.
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 01 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cleaned all main and pilot jets with carb cleaner and compressed air, all clear and able to see through them. No blockages.


Bike started fine, let her warm up with various levels of choke and still the fucker will not let me open the throttle in the bite zone. Bogs and really flat response from throttle.

My only other suspicion now is air/fuel mixture. Have the manual so will see what its factory setting is meant to be, otherwise im stumped.

Did notice the odd little flame popping out of my exhaust, and odd backfire, maybe that is mixture related?
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 01 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

RickTaff wrote:
Did notice the odd little flame popping out of my exhaust, and odd backfire, maybe that is mixture related?

From your description of the symptoms, I think your engine might have jumped time. Did the PO have issues with the cam chain tensioner? Might be worthwhile to check cam position relative to the crankshaft. Have a look at your valve clearance while you are at it.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 20:57 - 01 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the choke definitely off when you try to ride it? Does the bike start without choke?

I wonder if the choke is stuck on, or the choke plunger is damaged or something like that?
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 01 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do these have a fuel pump?
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 02 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Do these have a fuel pump?


yes thats working. Can feel it pulsing while bike is running
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 02 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Is the choke definitely off when you try to ride it? Does the bike start without choke?

I wonder if the choke is stuck on, or the choke plunger is damaged or something like that?


Going to try in an hour or so and see if itll start without choke. Colleague in work today suspects that because pilot and main jets are clear, it could quite easily be air/fuel mixture is off, need to re-seat and set to 2 1/4 - 2 1/2 turns out. So his advice was to try start without choke, with choke, and on both occasions remove air filter and see if it runs better. Because it bogs as i open throttle when clutch is in friction zone, could be too rich or too lean


Fair shout. Choke lever is very tough to move lately. Used to be like butter turning choke on and off could do it with your little finger, seems a bit tougher to move now. No idea why, have given it a few shots of WD40 and still same.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 13:49 - 02 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

RickTaff wrote:
few shots of WD40 and still same.


Not *really* a surprise, seeing as WD40 is not a lubricant. You'll need 3 in 1 oil on the cable, and if the actual choke mechanism is stiff, then you'll need to clean it and put a thin film of grease on it.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 02 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
RickTaff wrote:
few shots of WD40 and still same.


Not *really* a surprise, seeing as WD40 is not a lubricant. You'll need 3 in 1 oil on the cable, and if the actual choke mechanism is stiff, then you'll need to clean it and put a thin film of grease on it.


What a tosspot i am, the issue was a kinked fuel pipe under the tank. FFS. Where it looked routed fine while placing the tank onto the frame, it had kinked once it was fully seated.

Such a dunce
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 09:04 - 03 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

congrats on sorting it out Thumbs Up
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RickTaff
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PostPosted: 19:32 - 03 Feb 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

to v or not to v wrote:
congrats on sorting it out Thumbs Up


Holding my horses at the moment! Went out to start it tonight and it still starts and revs fine..

Noticed though when bike is on side stand, itll idle at say, for example, 2k RPM, and rev nice and smoothly, also seems to start better/quicker than when upright

When bike is infact upright, the RPM's drop to say 1400, the rev's seem worse and not as smooth, and she still isnt happy when pulling off. RPM's also seem to drop when the bike is sat on Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Had a mate out there with me earlier to get his opinion on this, and he seems to think as the bike has an 18litre fuel tank, perhaps there just isnt enough fuel, and due to it gathering on the left hand side when bike is leant..... thats why it performs better. - Fuel flow is better


When upright, he said maybe it's kind of starved, and basically tank needs topping right up, then try.
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