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Covid vaccine issue

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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 24 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Am I right in saying that as far as overall monetary value is concerned Big Pharma have been hit with paying out the most in law suits out of any industry?

(Not with regards to Covid specifically, just generally in normal running.)

Hard to say overall, but I did some research and ‘Big Pharma’ doesn’t dominate the list.

https://www.gjel.com/blog/largest-class-action-settlements.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_pharmaceutical_settlements

It’s a heavily regulated industry.

I’m not convinced by the accusations that anti-depressants given to sufferers of depression increased the likelihood that they would commit suicide. The most you could say is that the drug didn’t work for those individuals.

Interesting no one ever sues the arms industry.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 24 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


I’m not convinced by the accusations that anti-depressants given to sufferers of depression increased the likelihood that they would commit suicide. The most you could say is that the drug didn’t work for those individuals.


I had a client once who had been prescribed a drug called Moclobemide, they became psychotic and violent , fortunately the state didn't persist and when recovered from the psychosis refused to take any more of the drug. Turned out the consultant who prescribed the drug was retained by a big swiss pharmaceutical who they had been doing research for prior to taking up their post in the NHS. Dodgy as anything. The head pharmacist at the local psychiatric hospital was livid but the whole episode was hurredly swept under the carpet and i suspect the consultants move on from the post shortly afterwards may have partly been precipitated by it. Mind you her being a workplace sex pest and racking up a few complaints from almost any man who found themselves alone with her cant have helped.
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 24 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


I’m not convinced by the accusations that anti-depressants given to sufferers of depression increased the likelihood that they would commit suicide. The most you could say is that the drug didn’t work for those individuals.


If you do 'ANY' research into big pharma then you have to come across the strong links between being prescribed anti-depressants & death by suicide.

What really shook me to my core is the fact that your GP isn't really qualified to diagnose mental ilness, let alone prescribe a drug to treat it !
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 24 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Asking for a referral would make sense.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 25 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackButler wrote:
What really shook me to my core is the fact that your GP isn't really qualified to diagnose mental ilness, let alone prescribe a drug to treat it !


Any decent GP will refer you, not try to diagnose you. They know they're almost certainly not experienced enough in that area to try it.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:35 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Covid internment camps in Oz...

https://youtu.be/c4P8AA0QNH8

tl;dr Tim Pool takes fecking ages to get to the point but apparently government investigators will track you down - casually flouting what even we in the UK would consider privacy - if you've been in the general vicinity of a Covid-positive case, then carted off in a van to a camp.

WTF? What am I missing here?! I assumed this was just anti-vax misinformation but the later stuff in the video (~15 mins in) is all a bit weird Thinking
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 03:16 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Covid internment camps in Oz...

https://youtu.be/c4P8AA0QNH8

tl;dr Tim Pool takes fecking ages to get to the point but apparently government investigators will track you down - casually flouting what even we in the UK would consider privacy - if you've been in the general vicinity of a Covid-positive case, then carted off in a van to a camp.

WTF? What am I missing here?! I assumed this was just anti-vax misinformation but the later stuff in the video (~15 mins in) is all a bit weird Thinking


There's an interview doing the rounds of some poor young lady who was subject to this treatment. As a consequence, she lost her job. She committed no crime and was never given the right of trial. She tested negative throughout her two week internment, and was restricted to a tiny room with a bit of balcony. If she crossed the yellow lines around her 'cage', she was told she'd be fined 5000 Aussie dollars. She could not talk to or associate with anyone during that two weeks. She could also have her 'sentence' extended for breaking the rules of the camp. She told them she was concerned about her mental health if she couldn't go for exercise. Their suggested solution was valium. She struck me as just a nice, ordinary young lady, no trouble to anyone. She wasn't a "Covid denier", or anything like that. She took some video of some of the camp...guards?...telling her off for not wearing her mask to the laundry. They said they were being nice for not instantly hitting her with a 5000 dollar fine.

I wonder who the camp guards are? Seems history was right - anyone could be a camp guard. Just doing their job, right?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Booster done.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Booster done.

Dibs on your stuff
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Booster done.


I had mine last week. Pfizer this time, apparently the use of AZ followed by Pfizer and vice versa gives the best all round protection. Thumbs Up
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:39 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pfizer first jab, Pfizer second jab, Moderna first booster.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Pfizer first jab, Pfizer second jab, Moderna first booster.


Same principle of mixing vaccines? The nurse that did mine explained it really well.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 07 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having vaccine makes you more susceptible for the following couple of weeks but these are classified as 'unvaxxed' cases.
If this effect is removed from the data there is almost no benefit.

https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA
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Islander
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 07 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Having vaccine makes you more susceptible for the following couple of weeks but these are classified as 'unvaxxed' cases.
If this effect is removed from the data there is almost no benefit.

https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA


No it does not. You remain at the same level of risk you were as an unvaccinated person until your immune system reacts and starts to produce the necessary antibodies.

Still, conspiracy theorists gonna conspire...
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 07 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
Having vaccine makes you more susceptible for the following couple of weeks but these are classified as 'unvaxxed' cases.
If this effect is removed from the data there is almost no benefit.

https://youtu.be/Jxkb2yhdLiA


What he is saying and the graphs that are being shown on that video do not show the same thing as far as I can see. The first graph is showing a totally flat-line in the unvaccinated. No post-vaccine spike in mortality. A spike being caused by vaccine would lag behind the vaccination rate slightly. There is, if anything actually a drop in vaccinated mortality co-inciding with the peak of second dose vaccination. This would fit with my understanding that vaccination actually causes a transient increase in resistance to other diseases by activating the non-specific componants of the immune system.

The second one is odd isn't it? It appears to show the non-covid death rate in the vaccinated is consistantly lower so is there a protective effect of thevaccine from deaths by other causes? Are the people who are being vaccinated being looked after better? I'd expect peak deaths caused by vaccine to lag slightly behind a peak for vaccine uptake. Again, no spike co-inciding with second dose, all of whom would be classified as vaccinated which suggests the vaccine isn't causing an increase in mortality.

So why that spike in non-covid death rate? Well, let's look at the hospitalisations from covid over that time period.
https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/hospitalisations.png
Would a better explanation of that spike in non-covid deaths in the elderly during the start of 2021 be that it co-incides with peak pressure on the NHS due to COVID hospitalisations? I don't know either but it seems plausible.

Most telling argument for vaccine I can see is on this WHO graph of infection rates against mortality in the UK (I stripped out 2020 for clarity).
https://www.bikechatforums.com/files/epicurve_2021-12-07.png

So infection rates in the second half of 2021 consistantly around the same level as mid February, death rates around 1/5th as many. Remember those figures are overall, for the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 08 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've gotta love those anti-vaxxers and their crazy antics. Coming soon on you've been framed.


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/man-kills-wife-three-kids-201858585.html
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 08 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You've gotta love those anti-vaxxers and their crazy antics. Coming soon on you've been framed.


https://uk.yahoo.com/news/man-kills-wife-three-kids-201858585.html


Zeze papers are not in order. Ze persons responsible haf been shot!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 08 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those crazy anti-vaxxers part deux.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-59583381
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:05 - 08 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone is going to have to deliver something really special to up the ante Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
doggone is going to have to deliver something really special to up the ante Laughing


Give him and gettingmoreparanoid time. Cherry picking bad data is an exhausting process after all. Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:21 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have I got this right: infection rates are well up - Omicron certainly isn't going to help - but hospital admissions are up but to a lesser extent and deaths are way down Thinking
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 12:43 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Have I got this right: infection rates are well up - Omicron certainly isn't going to help - but hospital admissions are up but to a lesser extent and deaths are way down Thinking


So, apart from 'fictional' Christmas parties in number 10, what is the primary difference between this year and last year? oh... wait... vaccinations!
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

So why are we (governments and WHO) so worried about it then? I honestly don't understand unless there is more than they aren't telling us.

Go with 6 month jabs if that's the best thing and then let people live their lives. If vaccines are the be all and end all then no problem. Any anti vaxxers who snuff it, so what? Their choice and plenty of people in rubber dingys to replace them.

Just let people catch it, the more the better if vaccines are doing their stuff. Herd immunity and all that.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:

Just let people catch it, the more the better if vaccines are doing their stuff. Herd immunity and all that.


High rate of communicability and limited NHS resources...
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think government decision-making in all areas has become driven by an official opposition which deliberately will not take a constant stance on any matter themselves, and a hostile news media which sees itself, wrongly, as the voice of the people. Consequently the government is risk-averse and every decision has to be moderated by a fear of being wrong or having to U-turn in response to events. If I had to conduct my own job in those circumstances it would be impossible.

The weather forecasters are the same. Laughing Every period of inclement weather has to come with exaggerated warnings of flooding, high winds, snow, etc. and often it amounts to nothing while deterring people’s travel plans.
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