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Shemima Begum, Not Coming home now!

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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Updated - She's still not coming home.

Shamima Begum bid to regain UK citizenship rejected

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-64731007


Thing is, if a fifteen year old called Maria O'Mally O'Murphy and had got caught up assisting with Irish Republican terrorism would she be getting her citizenship revoked?

What about Jihadi Jack (English mum/Canadian dad iirc)?

Canada to repatriate British-born 'Jihadi Jack' along with 22 others held in Syria

Jack Letts, who was stripped of his UK citizenship in 2019 after fleeing to Syria to allegedly become an Islamic State fighter, is thought to be among the group to be repatriated.

bhinso wrote:
I watched her interview on catch up last week, it's amazing how Westernized she is now, Polarbear posted the pictures.

Yeah originally appearing in a Burqa saying she had no regrets about joining Islamic state didn't exactly help her case...
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DaddyStu
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Probably a good thing that we aren't all judged by the things we did as teenagers.

Seems overly harsh from the outside but there may be something they have on her that we arent aware of.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:


Canada to repatriate British-born 'Jihadi Jack' along with 22 others held in Syria

Jack Letts, who was stripped of his UK citizenship in 2019 after fleeing to Syria to allegedly become an Islamic State fighter, is thought to be among the group to be repatriated.



Canadian citizenship so not stateless.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

DaddyStu wrote:
Probably a good thing that we aren't all judged by the things we did as teenagers.


Too right, as teenagers we do crazy things.
My dad once nicked a chocolate bar.
I got drunk and passed out in a hedge overnight.

It's just one step up to joining a major terrorist organization with the intent of wiping Western Democratic ideals off the map.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 17:59 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
M.C wrote:


Canada to repatriate British-born 'Jihadi Jack' along with 22 others held in Syria

Jack Letts, who was stripped of his UK citizenship in 2019 after fleeing to Syria to allegedly become an Islamic State fighter, is thought to be among the group to be repatriated.



Canadian citizenship so not stateless.

His question was about whether they'd have their citizenship revoked. Everyone seems to gloss over the fact a white guy with an English mother also had their citizenship revoked, when they go for the racisms angle with Begum as seems to be the case here.

bhinso wrote:
DaddyStu wrote:
Probably a good thing that we aren't all judged by the things we did as teenagers.


Too right, as teenagers we do crazy things.
My dad once nicked a chocolate bar.
I got drunk and passed out in a hedge overnight.

It's just one step up to joining a major terrorist organization with the intent of wiping Western Democratic ideals off the map.

This. Also had they not acted like it was a gap year that went a bit wrong they might have got more sympathy.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:05 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

His question was about whether they'd have their citizenship revoked. Everyone seems to gloss over the fact a white guy with an English mother also had their citizenship revoked, when they go for the racisms angle with Begum as seems to be the case here.



He also wasn't a child when he went.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brick Wall
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:10 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

White 20 year old male is hardly compareable to the difference in treatment of the 2 under age girls trafficked by extremists for sexual purposes.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was 18 when he left to join ISIS and yes, if you're going for the racisms angle which many are, it's totally comparable.

Not all of us are stupid enough to fall for this narrative they've been concocting around her, and forget how unrepentant she was about the whole thing when they first interviewed her.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
He was 18 when he left to join ISIS and yes, if you're going for the racisms angle which many are, it's totally comparable.




Legally an adult so subject to all the responsibilities that are attached with that status and no mention of him being trafficed for sex either.

Therefore not even close to comparable.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think our security services probably have sources in the fugee camp who are confirming she's still involved with extremist activists. How else would Sajiv Javid get intelligence about her?. How trust worthy these sources will be is doubtful though. I suspect in order to supply information they have the prospect of a nice fugee placement somewhere comfortable in the west dangled in front of them.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

2 points about that.

1) It's hard to deradicalise yourself when you sat in what is basically a prison camp full of islamic estremists.
2) She watched 3 children die in as many years from malnutrition (if I remember correctly.) I would imagine her mental state is hardly tip top.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:40 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
He was 18 when he left to join ISIS and yes, if you're going for the racisms angle which many are, it's totally comparable.

Not all of us are stupid enough to fall for this narrative they've been concocting around her, and forget how unrepentant she was about the whole thing when they first interviewed her.


Im not interested in any "narrative" as you put it, im just questioning whether there is bias. Im sure she was as aware as any fifteen year old of what she was doing.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:

Thing is, if a fifteen year old called Maria O'Mally O'Murphy and had got caught up assisting with Irish Republican terrorism would she be getting her citizenship revoked?

What about Jihadi Jack (English mum/Canadian dad iirc)?

Canada to repatriate British-born 'Jihadi Jack' along with 22 others held in Syria

Jack Letts, who was stripped of his UK citizenship in 2019 after fleeing to Syria to allegedly become an Islamic State fighter, is thought to be among the group to be repatriated.

M.C wrote:
His question was about whether they'd have their citizenship revoked. Everyone seems to gloss over the fact a white guy with an English mother also had their citizenship revoked, when they go for the racisms angle with Begum as seems to be the case here.

M.C wrote:
He was 18 when he left to join ISIS and yes, if you're going for the racisms angle which many are, it's totally comparable.

Not all of us are stupid enough to fall for this narrative they've been concocting around her, and forget how unrepentant she was about the whole thing when they first interviewed her.

I've enlarged the important bits as you still seem to be struggling.

Ribenapigeon wrote:
I think our security services probably have sources in the fugee camp who are confirming she's still involved with extremist activists. How else would Sajiv Javid get intelligence about her?. How trust worthy these sources will be is doubtful though. I suspect in order to supply information they have the prospect of a nice fugee placement somewhere comfortable in the west dangled in front of them.

Sajid Javid says no one would let Shamima Begum return if they knew what he does

...aaand she told everyone herself. After that they went about creating this narrative and trying to change her image.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
M.C wrote:
He was 18 when he left to join ISIS and yes, if you're going for the racisms angle which many are, it's totally comparable.

Not all of us are stupid enough to fall for this narrative they've been concocting around her, and forget how unrepentant she was about the whole thing when they first interviewed her.


Im not interested in any "narrative" as you put it, im just questioning whether there is bias. Im sure she was as aware as any fifteen year old of what she was doing.

That post wasn't directed at you, and me bringing up Jihadi Jack was to question how (racially) biased the decision to strip Begum of her citizenship is, if they're willing to do the same to a white lad.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

You keep going on about the 1 case of when white priviledge didn't help to bolster your case to try and justify your view that it's not about racism.

It's like trying to compare the person who slipped on the scaffolding and accidently killed someone with a dropped tool to the person who ran into a crowded street stabbing loads oif people.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You keep going on about the 1 case of when white priviledge didn't help to bolster your case to try and justify your view that it's not about racism.

Laughing Because it destroys the whole argument that she had her citizenship revoked due to racisms. You know that and that's why you're trying so hard to deflect from that inconvenient fact.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You keep going on about the 1 case of when white priviledge didn't help to bolster your case to try and justify your view that it's not about racism.

Laughing Because it destroys the whole argument that she had her citizenship revoked due to racisms. You know that and that's why you're trying so hard to deflect from that inconvenient fact.


He didn't have any mitigating factors to prevent him losing his citizenship.

She was a child and was trafficked for sex. These are called mitigating factors. They have not been taken into account in the same way they were for the white girl who was following far right estremism rather than islamic extremism.

I can't work out if you are deliberately failing to understand this simple legal concept or not.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

She willingly joined a movement she ideologically believed in, did more than just have babies, and even when the whole thing fell apart still didn't harbour any remorse about the experience. Victim Thumbs UpWinkThumbs Up

Interesting how you think two teenagers joining a caliphate can't be compared (even when it's purely a racial comparison), but a girl who was reportedly sexually exploited online by an older guy, who got caught with bomb making videos and a guide for 3D printing a gun can... and is also racisms.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. So

The guy was 18. An adult. If he were a child (and thus considered not fully responsible for his/her actions) i would cut some slack.

He went to fight, she went to be a bride.

He was not trafficked for sex. If he was I'd cut some slack.

He was probably groomed, he gets a little slack for that but thats the same with every case.

he had dual nationality. Losing his British nationality isn't making him stateless. FFS the canadians have repatriated him to Canada.

The two cases are completely different.

You do realise she can't really say she was completely wrong and the islamics are idiots when she's inside a prison camp surrounded by them? That'll be a death sentance.

Try and look beyond the stuff politicans say.

Quite frankly, trying to say the white adult guy should be compared to the brown child girl is fucking rediculous when the white child girl wasn't even prosecuted.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

FFS your whole argument is that the white adult with dual nationality lost his citizenship is a justification for the brown girl who was groomed and trafficked to syria as a child and lost 3 kids should be made stateless when the white child in the UK who was arguably doing worse wasn't even prosecuted.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You do realise she can't really say she was completely wrong and the islamics are idiots when she's inside a prison camp surrounded by them? That'll be a death sentance.

Same argument as to why she was in a burqa, but now she can parade around in western clothing. Definitely not optics Thinking

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Try and look beyond the stuff politicans say.

I do. I also look beyond the narratives leftists try to concoct, when we've already seen the truth.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
FFS your whole argument is that the white adult with dual nationality lost his citizenship is a justification for the brown girl who was groomed and trafficked to syria as a child and lost 3 kids should be made stateless when the white child in the UK who was arguably doing worse wasn't even prosecuted.

^totally lost it. You realise Begum was sowing suicide vests? Whilst it sounds like white girl was sending nudes to some nonce in the US, whilst she had 3D printed gun plans which is in the BBC article cited as the serious part Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

Sajid Javid says no one would let Shamima Begum return if they knew what he does

...aaand she told everyone herself. After that they went about creating this narrative and trying to change her image.


So why doesn't Sajid tell us what he supposedly knows? My speculation is his knowledge will based on intelligence from likely dodgy sources. He also knows the power of populism and divisive issues. Begum is a god send to a shagged out party looking to cling on to power. They can leave her hanging around for ever knowing that she's not much of a priority even for people who support the view she was groomed and trafficked and drag her out like a dead cat to throw on the table whenever they like.

What nobody is really talking about is the fact that an international terrorist organisation can reach out into the lives of children and lethally influence them. Its tomorrows Begum or O'malley or Yehaww right wing juvenile we should be concerned with.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:

I do. I also look beyond the narratives leftists try to concoct, when we've already seen the truth.



Happy enough with a rightist narrative though. But then that will obviously be "the truth". What would we do without you to protect us from existential threats from within and without.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 22 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
So why doesn't Sajid tell us what he supposedly knows? My speculation is his knowledge will based on intelligence from likely dodgy sources. He also knows the power of populism and divisive issues. Begum is a god send to a shagged out party looking to cling on to power.

Well again she is pretty good source, and wasn't all this around 2019? The time long ago when the Tories were doing alright (politically) Laughing

Ribenapigeon wrote:
What nobody is really talking about is the fact that an international terrorist organisation can reach out into the lives of children and lethally influence them. Its tomorrows Begum or O'malley or Yehaww right wing juvenile we should be concerned with.

Yeah it's called the internet.

Ribenapigeon wrote:
M.C wrote:

I do. I also look beyond the narratives leftists try to concoct, when we've already seen the truth.



Happy enough with a rightist narrative though. But then that will obviously be "the truth". What would we do without you to protect us from existential threats from within and without.

What narrative is that? I watched the interviews for myself, and watched the media staggered by her lack of remorse. Since then you've seen the change in tactics, which's what I'm personally not gonna fall for.
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