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Shemima Begum, Not Coming home now!

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 00:50 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The whole problem is the modern idea of there is always a reason someone does something and that is never their fault.

How many horrible disruptive even viscious kids have been allocated a term for their actions. You aren't a cvnt, you are a lovely little sh1t with alphabet soup problems.

Now we have 3 girls (not 2 Nobby) that just wandered off to Syria at 15 years old to cut the throats of western citizens. Trafficked. What a lovely get out clause. One of the girls fathers used to take her to anti western rallys but I'm sure you can't blame him either.

I went to sea at 15. I knew exactly what I was doing. I had worked out that that after a trip away I would be able to enrole as a cadet at 16, minimum age. I never asked my mum. I never expected help, did Shell traffick me?

If you think those girls went from school to Syria without understanding what was going on? Rubbish. It'a not like going down the park for a few spliffs or getting fingered by your BF in the park shelter. They went to hurt people, seriously hurt people.

And just because I or they did that at 15, I agree it doesn't mean we know everything, but I damn well am sure I knew the difference between being a British person and a fucking traitor.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 01:41 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
It was a big mistake letting this get political.

She willingly went to Syria to marry a jihadist who used to behead people and slit their throats. She was not trafficked. She did this with planning and preparation, willingly. What ISIS, or even her husband personally, did didn't seem to bother her. Wouldn't it have been better for everyone if nobody ever knew her name in the first place? It's common sense that this person is radicalised, is extremely dangerous, and is an illegal combatant.

Unfortunately, she's probably going to live for another 70 years. This means that a future government will bring her back at some point.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 09:13 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Recent news reports: no mentions of the parents or the airline Thinking Very surprised they didn't squeeze "systemic" into the conversation Smile
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Feels like she’s being trafficked back into the UK as some kind of anti-Western sleeper, a bit like a number of the illegal immigrants destined for new crime syndicates here. I’ve heard legal immigrants (skilled professionals) bemoaning the import into the UK of the worst elements of the societies they were trying to escape from.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
She's only a sleeper if nobody knows she despises us and our decadent western ways, I'd argue it's common knowledge.
If she was let back in she'd dress like a letterbox ninja as soon as the paperwork was stamped and she'd blame racism
as the reason why she needs to hide her face. Once a west hating fanatic, always a west hating fanatic.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
The whole problem is the modern idea of there is always a reason someone does something and that is never their fault.


Bullshit. Ive worked with countless clients who have a criminal justice history and never somehow disregarded the risks they pose on the basis of their personal history. Understanding the precursors to behaviour is how you anticipate the potential actions of an individual and then put in place proportional and appropriate controls to risk. Your just perpetuating a reactionary fantasy whinge thats used as a set up to give permission to just happily sit in ignorance and indulge in vengeance fantasies.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
And also used to underfund probation services so that recividists dont get the support to break the chain of criminal activity.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
The whole problem is the modern idea of there is always a reason someone does something and that is never their fault.


Bullshit. Ive worked with countless clients who have a criminal justice history and never somehow disregarded the risks they pose on the basis of their personal history. Understanding the precursors to behaviour is how you anticipate the potential actions of an individual and then put in place proportional and appropriate controls to risk. Your just perpetuating a reactionary fantasy whinge thats used as a set up to give permission to just happily sit in ignorance and indulge in vengeance fantasies.

You haven’t actually contradicted what Polarbear said though.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


You haven’t actually contradicted what Polarbear said though.


Yes I have. To sum up my position, understanding actually controls risk which is the opposite to Polalbears position.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
And also used to underfund probation services so that recividists dont get the support to break the chain of criminal activity.


Spooky, you read my mind. After i wrote my post i started thinking about how those who complain most about criminals balk at the thought of actually investing in criminal justice services.


It's also occured to me that Shemima Begum didn't sit around in her bedroom plotting and arming up for some little rampage like an Incel but did actually pull her boots on and headed off to a proper warzone. She at least put her vagina where her heart was rather than spend her time whinging on an internet forum. Maybe people are right saying she shouldn't be allowed back to the UK just on the grounds she has more grit than the armchair general experts on her have?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Taking the section you quoted, your response was that once their resentment of political or personal circumstances has led them to harm an innocent person you can learn the lesson and take care of them such that they might not commit the crime again. Small consolation.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:50 - 23 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Taking the section you quoted, your response was that once their resentment of political or personal circumstances has led them to harm an innocent person you can learn the lesson and take care of them such that they might not commit the crime again. Small consolation.


No.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 00:16 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


You haven’t actually contradicted what Polarbear said though.


Yes I have. To sum up my position, understanding actually controls risk which is the opposite to Polalbears position.


You can understand all you want but if the understanding supports the view that there is no personal responsibility anymore then that understanding is fundamentaly flawed.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
If one goes as far as associating criminality with mental illness ("shoplifting shampoo? are you mad?!" etc.) the current thinking is that plenty of people have the latent mental defects to do rash things but it takes a particular environment to "activate" them. Hence why "I was abused as a child" might be a perfectly valid assessment for one person and yet another with a similar upbringing turns out perfectly fine.

It's like two people genetically susceptible to lung cancer, one smokes and the other never took it up...
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arry
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:

I can't work out if you are deliberately failing to understand this simple legal concept or not.


It's because, as M.C points out, you never understand nuance. Or, more likely, you gloss over the nuance as it drives a train through your argument. You're always more interested in looking virtuous with the right-on opinion than examining the deeper context.

The fact you used vaccination of 15 year olds as an attempt to influence others to your view is a classic example of such behaviour. You know full well that during the vaccination drive, right-wing parents were not up-in-arms about the decision to have the vaccine in of itself, it was the fact that the state could decide - in that particular instance - that a child was old enough to make its own decisions without parental involvement. But you'll craft it differently purely to support your own slant.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


You can understand all you want but if the understanding supports the view that there is no personal responsibility anymore then that understanding is fundamentaly flawed.


There is rarely any such understanding unless the individual lacks the capacity to know what they were doing. I do wonder sometimes about the capacity of some people here.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


You can understand all you want but if the understanding supports the view that there is no personal responsibility anymore then that understanding is fundamentaly flawed.


There is rarely any such understanding unless the individual lacks the capacity to know what they were doing. I do wonder sometimes about the capacity of some people here.


I do so agree Rolling Eyes
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
I just wonder where Syria will deport her to seeing as she isn't Syrian.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:17 - 24 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I just wonder where Syria will deport her to seeing as she isn't Syrian.


Holland? She married one.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 25 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I just wonder where Syria will deport her to seeing as she isn't Syrian.


These fugee camps become small states in their own right. She's probably going to live the rest of her life there.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 27 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
bhinso wrote:
If I was Begum's lawyer, I'd have a solid defense in that she was under 16. 16 is the age of consent in many ways, and under 16 you're classed as a minor and not accountable.

I watched her interview on catch up last week, it's amazing how Westernized she is now, Polarbear posted the pictures.

I suspect she'll 'disappear' i.e. be let back in under a completely new identity, somewhat like James Bulger's killers.


Quite wrong though, the age of Criminal Responsibility in England and Wales is 10 years old. It's 8 years old in Scotland.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 27 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


She's probably going to live the rest of her life there.


Good!
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:56 - 27 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
pepperami wrote:


Good!


Or the Republic of Northern Ireland maybe?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:46 - 27 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The UK terror watchdog has said leaving people in that situation makes our safety harder to achieve.

The US, canada and austrialia are repatriating their citizens.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-should-be-allowed-home-says-terror-watchdog-n9mvfghs8
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:38 - 27 Feb 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
And here's the same page without a paywall:

https://archive.today/2023.02.27-013615/https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/shamima-begum-should-be-allowed-home-says-terror-watchdog-n9mvfghs8

Wink
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