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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Euthanasia Reply with quote
What are your views? The spanish have moved to a world were people aren't forced to live out a life that they find worthless.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56446631
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:42 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I am in support of it. If someone wants to be euthanised then so be it. Equally, if it is someone who cannot make the decision themselves and they have no quality of life due to a medical condition, etc then the family should be able to make the decision too.

Obviously there has to be checks and measures in place before it can go ahead to stop grampa being off'd early for inheritance or to save on healthcare costs. Also shouldn't be come on someone who has a chance of a positive turnaround in their condition.

Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:32 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Obviously there has to be checks and measures in place before it can go ahead to stop grampa being off'd early for inheritance or to save on healthcare costs.

How, though?
Quite apart from the potential issue of family applying pressure to gramps (be that blatantly or just subtly) you have to consider that gramps may come to the decision entirely on his own... some old folk are obsessed with the idea of having something to leave to their offspring, and might quite happily exaggerate their clinical condition and swallow a bunch of pills in order to achieve that aim. That can't be right.

BTW I am in principle in favour of euthanasia - certainly if I was potatoe'd myself I'd definitely want it - but I'm uncomfortable about some of the awkward outlying scenarios.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:39 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Selfishly I'm all for it but I don't have any worries about wifie spiking my ovaltine to get my money, she happily spends it now.

I can see pros and cons but just as we now have the ability to keep the dead breathing, we must temper it with the acumen to know when to let people go.

Well done Spain but for the reasons Freddy says, I can't see it gaining much traction here.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:

How, though?
Quite apart from the potential issue of family applying pressure to gramps (be that blatantly or just subtly) you have to consider that gramps may come to the decision entirely on his own... some old folk are obsessed with the idea of having something to leave to their offspring, and might quite happily exaggerate their clinical condition and swallow a bunch of pills in order to achieve that aim. That can't be right.

BTW I am in principle in favour of euthanasia - certainly if I was potatoe'd myself I'd definitely want it - but I'm uncomfortable about some of the awkward outlying scenarios.


In the case of Grandad wanting to clock-out early, he can make the decision himself. Job done.

In the case of you being potatoe'd, your doctor tells your family there's fuck all chance of you getting better, a second doctor then agrees with the assessment. They then make the decision to punch your ticket. Job done.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 16:20 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
In the case of Grandad wanting to clock-out early, he can make the decision himself. Job done.
That's the point; a decent society should not be facilitating that. IMO. We'll agree to differ.

What about: "Grandpa, if you tell the nice doctors that you're in screaming agony and can't take the pain any more then they'll give you a pill to put you to sleep and then you can be with Granny again and leave your house to me like you always wanted, rather than going into that awful old people's home that stinks of piss and cabbage and they treat you like shit. But make sure you don't tell the docs about our little chat, eh, gramps? Granny's waiting for you."

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
In the case of you being potatoe'd, your doctor tells your family there's fuck all chance of you getting better, a second doctor then agrees with the assessment. They then make the decision to punch your ticket. Job done.
Absolutely, no problem with that. I wasn't disagreeing!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is why it would need more than 2 doctors. I would expect a judge to be involved and a completely indepedent psychiatrist.

If I got quadrospazzed and wasn't able to end my life easily myself I would want to be euthanised.

Even if you weren't quadrospazzed, there aren't many easily available ways of dying that don't incur pain.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
That's the point; a decent society should not be facilitating that. IMO. We'll agree to differ.


If some cunt wants to clock-out and is compos mentis enough to decide themselves then I think it's their right to punch their own ticket so long as they do it in a responsible way (i.e. going to a specialist clinic as opposed to jumping in front of a train).

You're never going to be able to stop suicides, but if there is a proper mechanism in place it can be used as a safety net to stop people with treatable mental health conditions, etc from offing themselves irresponsibly and get them the support they need for a recovery instead.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 17:24 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.


I say that about fat people too. Thumbs Up
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kris wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.


I say that about fat people too. Thumbs Up


True, as a fat guy I know first hand that I am.

Eat healthy + Train at Gym = Die Anyway.
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virus
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


If some cunt wants to clock-out and is compos mentis enough to decide themselves then I think it's their right to punch their own ticket so long as they do it in a responsible way (i.e. going to a specialist clinic as opposed to jumping in front of a train).

You're never going to be able to stop suicides, but if there is a proper mechanism in place it can be used as a safety net to stop people with treatable mental health conditions, etc from offing themselves irresponsibly and get them the support they need for a recovery instead.


Totally agree, Right now anyone who wants to clock out only has the suicide option in the UK. To have a medically safe and assessed option would not only help terminal patients to have some dignity in death but also completely change the tone of suicide. Lets face it even in todays enlightened age of many mental health charities and facebook movements etc people dont ACTUALLY want to talk about it. If it was just an alternative to a medical procedure it would be a lot less taboo to talk about.
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Islander
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Joined: 05 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
This is why it would need more than 2 doctors. I would expect a judge to be involved and a completely indepedent psychiatrist.

If I got quadrospazzed and wasn't able to end my life easily myself I would want to be euthanised.

Even if you weren't quadrospazzed, there aren't many easily available ways of dying that don't incur pain.


In any case where the decision wasn't made by a compos mentis individual then absolutely this.

Where people are concerned about not being able to make that decision then an advance directive might be a suitable mechanism. You do have to bear in mind that some people will change their minds when presented with the reality of impending death though.

On the whole I support the idea of the option of choosing a dignified and pain-free death.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kris wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.


I say that about fat people too. Thumbs Up


Fat people don't tend to try and evangelise it though...
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 19 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
All for it. We don't let our pets suffer, but are happy to let our nearest and dearest?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 20 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
All for it. We don't let our pets suffer, but are happy to let our nearest and dearest?


This, but bear in mind sometimes the cure might only prolong life for a short time and for a dumb animal this might actually be kinda cruel... but enough of my ex-mother-in-law!
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 11:02 - 20 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Coercion. That's my only issue.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 19:06 - 20 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
All for it. We don't let our pets suffer, but are happy to let our nearest and dearest?


There are many circumstances where it would be a criminal offence to allow an animal to go through what we put terminally ill humans through.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I say why not.

Being dead isn't the issue. Dying is the unpleasant part. Everyone wants the ''I went to bed and didn't wake up'' death, but not many are granted this luxury.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 01:20 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.

Not quite, unfortunately. It's the non vaccinated people that allowe viral diseases to mutate into new stronger virus strains. So, anti vaxxers are in fact endangering us all. Thinking
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Anti-vaxxers are already pre-emptively euthanising themselves though.

Not quite, unfortunately. It's the non vaccinated people that allowe viral diseases to mutate into new stronger virus strains. So, anti vaxxers are in fact endangering us all. Thinking


Indeed. All you people who don't have flu vaccines have been endangering my life for years.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Indeed. All you people who don't have flu vaccines have been endangering my life for years.


Yes, indeed. But I think that people do much worse than that. Having all sorts of pets is much worse for the public health, for instance, than not having a flu vaccine. Especially exotic pets and zoos. Silly that might sound, many of the dieses we know originate from animals or have animals involved.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
RhynoCZ wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Indeed. All you people who don't have flu vaccines have been endangering my life for years.


Yes, indeed. But I think that people do much worse than that. Having all sorts of pets is much worse for the public health, for instance, than not having a flu vaccine. Especially exotic pets and zoos. Silly that might sound, many of the dieses we know originate from animals or have animals involved.


Sounds like a deflection to me. Are you going to have a flu vaccine for the coming winter?
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Val
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
All for it. We don't let our pets suffer, but are happy to let our nearest and dearest?


Good point.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 17:04 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Sounds like a deflection to me. Are you going to have a flu vaccine for the coming winter?


It's not a deflection, it's a scientifically proven fact/s.

I'll be honest with you, I've never had a flu vaccine and don't really plan on getting one any time soon. Where I live only pensioners and immunocompromised people get the flu vaccine on regular basis. I've had the flu twice in my 30 years of living on this planet, both times as a child.

I do have all the legally required vaccination done and renewing the ones that require it as my GP says. I am considering getting the encephalitis vaccine, as due to warmer winters we get crap loads of ticks, even in cities, and many are infected.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 21 Mar 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Never mind. You're missing the point, but wrong thread for this discussion.
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