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Trying to find the right anti-freeze/coolant

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sickpup
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PostPosted: 00:07 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Trying to find the right anti-freeze/coolant Reply with quote

Rebuilding the coolant system on my 2009 NT700 which requires a silicate free Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze/coolant and the only type I can find that fits the bill is Bluecol 2year, can anyone suggest anything else suitable?
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I`ve always used Silkolene pro cool but you may be after Silkolene mag cool.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Halfords OAT
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 01:01 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
I`ve always used Silkolene pro cool but you may be after Silkolene mag cool.


Neither of which list the composition.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Halfords OAT


Not suitable in a lot of engines and doesn't meet the correct grade.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 03:04 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can buy inhibitor free glycol coolant.

(I normally check the pack to ensure that it has inhibitor already added.

Coz many do not.)

A lube specialist 'should' be able to advise.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 08:02 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like Millers do a 5 year that fits your requirements: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-60276-millers-oils-alpine-antifreeze-coolant-extend-red-concentrate.aspx
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:


It's an OAT which isn't suitable.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

By asking for silica-free aren’t you asking for OAT (organic acid technology)? What makes it unsuitable?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
By asking for silica-free aren’t you asking for OAT (organic acid technology)? What makes it unsuitable?


It's unsuitable because Honda don't recommend it.

Honda recommend an IAT Ethylene Glycol Silicate free coolant/antifreeze such as their Type 2 coolant which isn't an OAT coolant so needs changing every 2 years. I can only assume that Honda don't consider OAT coolants seal safe.

I'd never looked too closely at coolant before so it's quite a surprise that most stuff on the market these days isn't suitable. The only stuff that seems to be suitable is IAT EG silicate free 2 year protection stuff which is sold for classic cars and not the easiest to get hold of. All of the 5 year protection types are OAT.

Does make me wonder how many time bomb vehicles (including my own possibly) there are with the wrong coolant in them.
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virus
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are that worried about the specific certifications and recommended ratings as supplied by honda, have you not thought of just buying some from your local honda dealer?
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stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 03 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:
If you are that worried about the specific certifications and recommended ratings as supplied by honda, have you not thought of just buying some from your local honda dealer?


Tried that with bevel box oil a few years back and they couldn't supply. The Bluecol I previously mentioned fits the ratings but I can only get through mail order at half the price of the Honda coolant.
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virus
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 04 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
virus wrote:
If you are that worried about the specific certifications and recommended ratings as supplied by honda, have you not thought of just buying some from your local honda dealer?


Tried that with bevel box oil a few years back and they couldn't supply. The Bluecol I previously mentioned fits the ratings but I can only get through mail order at half the price of the Honda coolant.


my apologies, I made the foolish mistake of thinking a dealership wasnt just out to sell brand new bikes on HP.. Laughing

Have you tried opie oils? they seem to have a good rep on the forum from back in the day and also carry a range of fluids other than oil.
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owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 04 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

n00b question but what's in the engine that requires such obscure coolant? ...beyond the usual iron, steel, aluminium and magnesium?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 00:20 - 05 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
n00b question but what's in the engine that requires such obscure coolant? ...beyond the usual iron, steel, aluminium and magnesium?


Seals/Gaskets.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 05 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
n00b question but what's in the engine that requires such obscure coolant? ...beyond the usual iron, steel, aluminium and magnesium?


It's not even that obscure as it's still recommended for as far as I can find out for all Honda Motorcycles and cars as well as most cars that had 2 year service intervals for coolant.

As said above the wrong coolant can eat seals, gaskets and coolant lines. It can also attack yellow metals such as bushings.

Not managed to find anything suitable locally so will order 30 litres of unmixed Bluecol.

Like the bevel box oil for the Deauville and the EP90 for the gearboxes on the Landrover I'm constantly finding new spec fluids aren't suitable for older stuff even if sold as suitable.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 05 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Respectfully, I think you are overthinking this. I've used Prestone 60/40 mix in all my water cooled bikes, including two Hondas that had 105,680 and 117,927 miles on the clocks when sold. No problem with seals, water pump, head gasket or otherwise. Surely if coolant formulation was a critical requirement to the point of part failure, bikes would be dropping like flies all over the world from the wrong coolant. For my money, a reputable coolant formulated for aluminum radiators, and changed at regular intervals, is sufficient.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 05 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I 'was' using exclusively Gas from Motor Racing 1 5w40 fully synthetic engine oil for my BMW bikes.
It was the only oil BMW recommended for the bikes I had.

Didn't the daft fcukers change their collective minds on that shite a few years later.
I think they use a similar grade but a different compan not Castrol.

Nobends.

I haven't a clue what they use now but I'm sticking to the Castrol blend I use. Castrol Motor Racing 1 5w40.

I tend to use the oil recommended by OEM.
It's simpler maybe more expensive but the small cost is negligible to me for the two machines it is used in.
It's a different theory if used in several units or fleet.
Then a bit of prior knowledge helps.

The 90° drive on my k1300 spec a unique oil that I can only find from BMW.
Many companies ask oil companies to blend to a spec. Based on their own engineering and the blenders advice.
Some of the special functions of special blends may only be seen over many units averaged over many conditions.
But a one-off owner may not need all the bells and whistles of a manufacturers special blends.
As long as there is a competent judgement made on the choice.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 05 May 2021    Post subject: Re: Trying to find the right anti-freeze/coolant Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Rebuilding the coolant system on my 2009 NT700 which requires a silicate free Ethylene Glycol anti-freeze/coolant and the only type I can find that fits the bill is Bluecol 2year, can anyone suggest anything else suitable?


so .. is this the stuff you are talkin about .. it appears my honda also requires something the same Surprised

https://www.bluecol.co.uk/nevonproducts/bluecol-antifreeze-2-year-5l/
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 09:21 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Respectfully, I think you are overthinking this. I've used Prestone 60/40 mix in all my water cooled bikes, including two Hondas that had 105,680 and 117,927 miles on the clocks when sold. No problem with seals, water pump, head gasket or otherwise. Surely if coolant formulation was a critical requirement to the point of part failure, bikes would be dropping like flies all over the world from the wrong coolant. For my money, a reputable coolant formulated for aluminum radiators, and changed at regular intervals, is sufficient.


All fair comments but I think you're wrong.

I have run NTV600/650's, BROS 400/650's for years without any coolant system problems apart from the radiators rotting away due to age. These often exceeded 250k before they were scrapped.
I have one NT650 Deauville with only 70k on it that has a lunched engine due to a coolant leak between the cylinders that started un-noticed on the M4 and warped the heads.
My daily use NT700 is down at the moment due to a leak between the cylinders.

As all these bikes use pretty much the same engines and use the same seals something has changed and I can only put it down to the coolant.

It may be more difficult to get hold of IAT non-silicate coolant but it doesn't actually cost anymore , it may actually work out cheaper so to my mind it's worth doing the right way.

Having a look at the Smith and Allan site they have a copy of the BS6580 standard here which doesn't mention an OAT inhibitor package but the Cooltech 53 Coolant they sell here which meets BS6580 does contain an OAT inhibitior so this is all very contradictory and confusing. I just don't know enough about coolant types and I'm having trouble trying to find the information.
I'm wondering if the inhibitor package added to coolant sits outside of the standard so the standard applies to the base coolant type such as EG or MEG etc. and then the inhibitor added afterwards doesn't affect the standard?

Copycat73 wrote:
so .. is this the stuff you are talkin about .. it appears my honda also requires something the same Surprised

https://www.bluecol.co.uk/nevonproducts/bluecol-antifreeze-2-year-5l/


Yes that's the stuff. As far as I can tell it meets all the requirements with nothing extra added such as an OAT inhibitor package. If you can see something I can't and I'm wrong please let me know before I buy a bulk load of it.

If you really want to be certain of having the right stuff have a look at Honda type 2 coolant. Its a lot more expensive £20-£30 delivered for 5 litres ready mixed but a Honda dealer will be able to confirm it is correct.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 09:33 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:

Yes that the stuff. As far as I can tell it meets all the requirements with nothing extra added such as an OAT inhibitor package.


i`ve trawled through the spec. and it looks suitable .. ordered 2 of these

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/bluecol-universal-antifreeze-coolant-1l-523770271

better than the asda finest thats in cos it defo has a silicone element added... Sad
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
i`ve trawled through the spec. and it looks suitable .. ordered 2 of these

https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/bluecol-universal-antifreeze-coolant-1l-523770271


That's a different spec coolant. That's the universal not the Blue which was the type you first linked.

Worth having anyway as it can be used to top up any kind of coolant.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:


That's a different spec coolant. That's the universal not the Blue which was the type you first linked.

Worth having anyway as it can be used to top up any kind of coolant.


dam.. so is it incompatible ?

no silicate rust inhibitors ?
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Copycat73 wrote:
dam.. so is it incompatible ?

no silicate rust inhibitors ?


I don't know for sure. It is BS6580 so 'should' be EG but no idea what the inhibitor is. 'Looks' ok but just not sure, sorry.
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 06 May 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

e bay it is then .. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluecol-Antifreeze-Coolant-Blue-Down-36C-5L-Litre-/402782681259?var=0&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5338268676&toolid=10044&customid=EAIaIQobChMIgua82vm08AIVoujtCh3KSQdqEAQYAyABEgIS0vD_BwE
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