Bikes and Aquaplaning

[GettinBetter]

So... Can bikes remain upright when aquaplaning?

Technically can the required correctional forces be maintained to balance? I mean water does give a slight resistance, so what do you guys think. Can I cane it through surface water as long as I don't try and change direction? Works fine in the car.

Asking for a friend Just asking

[sickpup]

How much skill and experience do you have?

[MCN]

Bikes will want to fall over if aquaplaning.
Bikes wobble from out of balance left-balanced-out of balance right-balanced-out of balance left. And bla bla bla.

They need to have friction between the bike and the road/ground to enable out of balance to be corrected by the steering.


But If you are carrying enough momentum you will probably skim through a patch of water aquaplaning.
But probably fall over when out of balance/lack of skill overcomes the effect of momentum and the gyro effect of the wheels spinning.
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[stinkwheel]

I've never had a road bike aquaplane, and I have hit standing water going pretty damned fast.

If it does truly aquaplane, you'll pretty much lose all friction in the same way as hitting ice or deep mud/gravel, the bike will continue going straight on at the same speed according to the forces acting on it when you lost grip. Rider input will do almost exactly fuck-all, maybe a slight gyroscopic effect from the wheels which will tend to make you stay more upright than you otherwise would have done with non-moving wheels.

I suppose the gyroscopic effect might exert some slight rotational forces, but probably not much. Prehaps also a slight rudder action from the front as it ploughs through the water? I'd suggest you probably want to keep it pointing in the direction you are going in anticipation of grip returning anyway (if it's pointing in a different direction when it grips, well, I don't need to paint a picture here).

If you were gong straight and level and pointing at where you want to be when this all happens, you are in luck, try to hang on and don't fuck with anything until grip returns. If you weren't, well, it will still keep going in a straight line if that's where you want to be or not. Tough luck if you are trying to brake or manouver. Note that it may not necessarily keep FACING in a straight line, even if it's GOING in a straight line.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[sickpup]

The skill and experience bit comes into play as when you hit the water your speed will drop massively and you need to not do anything, steer or brake and you will more than likely go swimming.

[Nobby the Bastard]

If you are going fast enough to aquaplane on a bike with its small contact patch you are going far too fast for the conditions.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

I reckon you’d be straight on your arse. In the absence of balancing friction under the tyres wouldn’t the gyroscopic precession of rotating wheel(s) move the bike away from straight, level, upright?

[UncleFester]

For straight line stuff ..... To be aquaplaning you must do something to break traction either by steering / braking / accelerating. Otherwise you *should* make it out the other side.

Same as in a car if you hit water / ice .... back gently off the throttle ( some experts say dip the clutch) but the idea is to keep the wheels moving at the same speed you are travelling until you have exited the water at which point smoothly engage drive again.

How well that works without the cat like reflexes of a pro i'm less sure. For the less talented amongst us. driving to the conditions is probably a more realistic aim.

If it's on a corner as per Stinkwheel - good luck.
____________________
Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.

[Nobby the Bastard]

Guy Martin aquaplaned half way across a lake so it is doable.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[Shaft]

Shame Marmalade isn't here more often, he can tell you what aquaplaning a Pan European at speed is like - having seen the after pictures, not very pleasant, would be my guess.
____________________
Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035

[Nobby the Bastard]

As I couldn't keep with Marm when he was on a pan with trailer and I was on an exup I've got nothing more to say on the subject.....
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[stinkwheel]

[Weisse Schlange]

I've done it.

It will frighten the shite right out of you, is all I'm saying.

I won't do it twice.
____________________
Hing Oan

[Easy-X]

Slamming the rear brake on too hard on the Keeway in the rain was disconcerting enough... at 10mph
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[mentalboy]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[blurredman]

This reminds me of poor Marmalade.
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. , 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 38k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 49k

[Fizzer Thou]

As soon as I read the headline I looked for this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoYLKSYnrN0

The factors that could have caused this event might well fill a page,but I would think the top causes could have been the depth of the water,the depth of the tread pattern and its ability to disperse water....amongst many others.

Coming off in wet conditions is never very nice and my first recollection goes back to September 1975 on my way to college.But I put that down to a Nitto 'safety' tyre on the front of my CB125S,which was very soon after changed for an Avon Speedmaster rib.This type of tyre served me well in the wet for many thousands of miles after.

I would also say that confidence in riding in the rain is also a big factor.I could not see anything wrong with riding quickly in very heavy rain on the way home from the WSB in Assen years ago.Many other vehicles were pulling off the road which made it easier,except for a Porsher who decided not to go over ***mph to keep up.

Having ridden dirt bikes for many years has also quickened the reactions whether it was the front or the back that slid out in a big way.Once again,tyre quality and condition made the experience fun instead of dangerous.
____________________
Just talk bikes.What else is there?

Always have a 'Plan B'

[stinkwheel]

[GettinBetter]

Nice info guys, & thank you for the responses.

I ask because I regularly hit standing water (in my car) on motorways, knowing full well that as long as pick the point I want at the end and aim for it before hittting the water, and don't try anything stupid like braking or changing direction, Newtons Laws see me through.

However, I'm not convinced that the small amount of resistance required for balance would be available, and as such I think the comments here enforce the belief that 'ride for the conditions' is the right choice here.

[MCN]

Wet Race tyre for bikes are fascinating things.

Soft for extra grip, the tyre surface conforms to the road to increase the effects of friction.
And hundred of grooves to pump water out from under the tyre.
I know NW200 (Possibly all NI) road racing require treaded tyres for all racing. Perhaps IOM can use slicks.

But Wet Race treaded tyres are something special. I remember a comentator say they are/were only available for racing. Maybe even only for official race events.

Just checked, The big makers make wet race tyres. Joe Public can buy them.

e.g.

https://www.thevisorshop.com/Mobile/en/Michelin-Power-Rain-Motorcycle-Tyres/m-m-18297.aspx?PartnerID=21&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkZiFBhD9ARIsAGxFX8DQ1g8XgRCG3D3rA1sW2y4tPA7EpGpWjz85sVymVfHuH-ju0eyjqQkaAl0FEALw_wcB&utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=UnitedKingdom
____________________
Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[BanditsHigh]

On the way to work one early morning on my GSX1400 ... heavy rain ... doing 80-90 and hit a big puddle in the fast lane!

When the bars went full right lock it took a second or so to realise I was aquaplaning ... a few seconds later they went back to centre.

My usual riding style is a loose grip on the bars, and it's this I put down to the bike sorting itself out.

Needless to say, I slowed down .... I still don't understand to this day how the bike didn't cartwheel down the road .... pure luck!

All the best ... Barry

[GettinBetter]

I reckon someone should volunteer and test the outcome a few times for consistency of results, should make for an interesting video. You know, just so we know.

They could fit training wheels to ensure the bike would last till tests completed....any offers?

[Hong Kong Phooey]