Electro-lobbocks

[Keithy]

Not bothered if you like to hug trees or strangle dolphins, my issue is being treated like a fekkin eejit.

eMCN cobblers article - we get a an e-sceptic to ride an e-bike and “You can’t lend me [the money] can you?” - result!

Para 2 - what do you normally do? ‘Up to 200 miles’

Para 7 - would you switch to electric? ‘range as it is - around 100 miles - is good for the day out that I do’

No it fekkin isn’t, it’s half of what you need. Unless you want to go to that unicorn cafe with a charge point that does not have the other (probably 6 or 7) e-bikers waiting to charge up. Oh, hang on, let’s say only 5 bikers, at 45 minutes each on a fast charge, so only about a 4 hour wait before you head back.

…and the money? “In terms of financial cost a PCP could make sense”. No it won’t. A middleweight can be had for £3-£4K, you get 200 miles on a tank and can fill it, pretty much anywhere, in 3 minutes. The e-dildo you are about to mount is TWENTY ONE THOUSAND POUNDS!!

I deeply resent this sort of article that treats you like someone who has gone a bit ga-ga “would you like an e-bike dear? And one of those nice biscuits, that taste of pine and lavender?”

Stop patronising me!

[Bhud]

The internal combustion engine is a work of art and science.
You can (as of right now) still buy yourself a vintage mechanical masterpiece with, for example, an air-cooled boxer engine, or a single cylinder 2-stroke screamer. Or you can buy a modern mechanical masterpiece with a crossplane crank, 4 cylinders, a supercharger and lots of fuelling modes. Both of these machines will be radically different, but the beauty of it is, you can have something which is truly a machine. Designed and built with a concept in mind, whether that be winning a trials or motocross championship, or just being a straight-line A-road torque monster. Outrageous and excessive machines, like a Triumph Rocket, or a rudimentary and raucous single or twin. Horses for courses; get what you like while you still can, and while it's still allowed.

[arry]

[Kris]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Electric is fine if you're charging at home and don't really need to charge part way through your ride. It's gonna be a bitch when everyone at a motorway services is low on charge and you're 15 deep in a queue of people who all need to sit there for an hour each.
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DILLIGAF

[stinkwheel]

[Martylaa]

Have to agree, I like getting my weekly copy of MCN but the electric pullout this week was purely punted to us from the industry pumping out a lot of crap. Like others I’m interested in real life situation reviews and they don’t paint such a glossy finish.

Plus who seriously can spend £21k on a biome, not me that’s for sure…

I had a ride out to Whitby last night, the place was full of bikers, now imagine something like that with half a dozen charge points, you seriously wouldn’t bother…

[Arfa__]

I can see e-bikes working for a shortish commute into the city, 20-30 miles each way type, cutting through traffic mostly sub 50mph riding. Something that should be doable on one charge, even in the cold winter with all your heated gear plugged in.

But, you'd still need a ICE bike for the weekend, touring, ride outs with mates or any sensible riding out of town. I get pissed off with a petrol tank that only gets you 130 miles down road, but at least I can refill it in a couple of mins and will commonly fill up 2 or 3 times in one day for a longer ride.

And then you've got the not so small matter of your second commute bike costing £16-21k! For that money you can buy three brand new Honda CBF500 or Forza350's which are perfect for a city commute and still have change for a decent all weather Rukka suit.

They're a nice idea in principle, but until we see changes in price, range and ease of recharge, I just can't foresee any mass adoption in the biking community.
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Beginner Biker Adventures Blog
Yamaha FZ6 S2 2007

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[BRUN]

i work in a car dealers, and its the same with electric cars, until the prices change mass adoption will never happen

the target the government has set itself, is not possible whatsoever, it would take a very good, worthwhile, scrappage scheme for it to ever pass the tipping point

i believe the scandi countries have done very well in switching people over, but they incentivised it heavily

also we still havent solved the issue of what is going to happen to all these batteries after 7-10 years when they wont hold a charge anymore

[Hong Kong Phooey]

Recycling won't be a problem, the scrap batteries are easier to retrieve the precious metals and lithium from than starting from scratch, and tax payers money will be funding that no doubt.

The one trick pony of instant acceleration that swayed masses of car owners over won't work on bikers who take this for granted. Yes they will be quicker than some bikes but most bikes are already too much to handle.

That leaves the noise and alleged green credentials, noise ha. Plenty of riders ditch the standard can already and piping out fake pewpew light sabre tron UFO sounds or fake V12 screamers is just going to make you look more of a dick than you actually are.

In a car you're sheltered while charging in a storm, and can avoid eejits with the doors closed, who wants to sit around in bike gear waiting for electrons to be herded while some Audi driving divvy shouts over 'nice weather for it mate' from under a nice canopy while he fills up, the electric charge station was added as an after thought and has no weather protection.

Battery tech is not there yet, not enough range, heavy, and takes too long to charge, but one day it will be solved. Only then would I consider adding one as a second bike, but would need a lengthy test ride before committing.
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'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8

[Martylaa]

Have to agree, I like getting my weekly copy of MCN but the electric pullout this week was purely punted to us from the industry pumping out a lot of crap. Like others I’m interested in real life situation reviews and they don’t paint such a glossy finish.

Plus who seriously can spend £21k on a biome, not me that’s for sure…

I had a ride out to Whitby last night, the place was full of bikers, now imagine something like that with half a dozen charge points, you seriously wouldn’t bother…

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Electric is fine if you're charging at home and don't really need to charge part way through your ride. It's gonna be a bitch when everyone at a motorway services is low on charge and you're 15 deep in a queue of people who all need to sit there for an hour each.
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DILLIGAF

[stinkwheel]

I'll keep my powder dry for hydrogen powered ICEs.

Hydrogen has 146 octane which would pave the way for low capacity, stupidly high compression, screamers. The fuel will already be pressurised anyway and the decompression will effectively result in epic levels of charge-cooling.

Wet sump, direct injection 2-strokes could become a reality.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[chickenstrip]

Electric just doesn't have a big part of what draws me to bikes, which is the ICE. Something visceral about them.
No more ICE, no more biking for me, but I don't suppose that will happen in my lifetime, and besides, I got the best out of it that I could - many years of fun and enjoyment.
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Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE!

[Freddyfruitba...]

[Robby]

Whilst I differ from many on here in that I really want an electric bike (and an electric car), and the current crop of either would fit my requirements, it's the cost.

Electric car, not so bad. I'm looking to buy in about 18 months. I want a family hatchback with a range of about 200 miles. There are loads of options right now that fit my requirements, and they will be available as 2 year old cars when I'm looking to buy. I will be paying a premium of about 25% to go electric, and I'm ok with that.

Bikes though. The only realistic contender is the zero range. They cost double what an equivalent petrol bike would cost, with the worry of a sudden spike in depreciation when one of the big manufacturers brings out the electric middleweight for the masses. I can handle something happening with my Guzzi and it suddenly being worth 2 grand less, I would be less impressed if my bike was suddenly worth 6 grand less.

I'm still confident that electric bikes will happen, but trailing electric car takeup in a similar way to how we trail cars on emissions standards, about 5-7 years. Right now we're in a similar situation to the early Nissan Leaf and Tesla Roadster (for zero and H-D, respectively). It needs a couple more generations before people will seriously consider a Honda CBF-e over a CBF-500, and a bit past that before the electric bike is a better choice than the petrol.

Still, I'm a geek, I will pay over the odds for a worse overall product if it makes me feel like I'm in the future.

[Vracktal]

Electric cars are sorta-getting there but still have a lot of issues, and electric bikes those issues are compounded. Batteries are heavy and have poor energy density compared to liquid fuel. Cars get around this to an extent by cramming as many as possible into the vehicle (which is why the new electric hummer weighs four tonnes). Cars also make the best of aerodynamics to get the most of the limited energy they can carry, which is why so many electric cars look like melted frogs.

Bikes are handicapped in both these regards - there's a far stricter limit on space/weight available to fit batteries to, *and* aerodynamics are compromised by having to fit a pesky human on the bike.

In terms of charging, the system breaks down further. I remember a video recently of a Porsche Taycan owner showing the lengths he had to go to in order to charge his car as a londoner without a personal charger at home - driving miles out of the city to find a charger, having the charger break twice without getting much energy, then driving to two further chargers and having similar issues before giving up and returning home several hours and not much % better off.

It will take a paradigm shift in battery technology before electric cars are ready for the mainstream. There is some promising tech in the works such as solid state batteries which at concept scale could be both lighter, faster charging, higher capacity and less prone to degradation. At present this has yet to be demonstrated outside laboratory conditions.

I'm not overly convinced the tech will be there by the deadlines imposed by the UK and other nations for new liqiuid fuel car sales to be phased out.
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2007 BMW R1200R: On road
2009 BMW G650X Challenge: On road
1975 Norton Commando 850: Off road, awaiting recommissioning

[chickenstrip]

[Hong Kong Phooey]

The tipping point is almost there for cars, range is enough for most people most of the time. Charging infrastructure is increasing, most well off people who consider newer cars already have off-road driveways so can install a wall charger.

Cheap overnight charge rates incentivises owners of them to drain the grid at a more suitable time, electric car uptake is growing year on year.

However, once 30-50% or so take up is achieved, the tax revenue now missing from fuel and car tax will also need to be recouped, so expect it to be applied by pay per mile, or some other way the government can also closely monitor/control your movements.

By that time it'll be too late, and new ICE sales will be restricted to commercial vehicles or some limited licenced buyers in the Outer Hebrides.
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'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8

[BRUN]

i definitely wouldn't say the car tipping point is almost there

they are still far too expensive for the average person, and their is barely any used market for them as people don't want one with a used, poorer range, battery

for a lot of people they would only consider one new because of the battery issue, and new are too expensive

we are years and years behind if it ever even happens, something else might come out before they fully take off, like hydrogen, and then we will have the adoption issue of that aswell

[stinkwheel]

The whole model for vehicle ownership will change. It's happening now in cities.

A lot of my mates in Edinburgh now don't own a car, they hire one by the hour when they need one. They'll all be electric before long. Then either ICE for a longer journey or swap rental cars in a pony-express style as the batteries go flat.

If there are a lot more going in one direction on a particular journey, rental prices will reflect this with a cheaper return journey. This already happens with motor homes in likes of New Zealand. Most tourists go one way. You can get one for free if you go the other direction.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[WD Forte]

If they put meters on them Ebikes you could pay as you go
We had them when I was a lad and always kept a 50p bit on the meter
in case the power went off during Corrie.
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bikers smell of wee

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

The gridwatch website is always interesting in this context.

https://gridwatch.templar.co.uk/index.php

Look at the low contribution of “green energy” to the total.

Look at the demand vs. total electricity generation capacity. In Winter I’ve seen it in the orange sector.

The ‘daily demand’ chart shows the useage is still quite high at 2 in the morning. What happens if we all start plugging in private electric vehicles overnight? Where will the required extra capacity come from?

[Arfa__]