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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 08:23 - 02 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I had high hopes that biofuels made from organic waste would save fuel stations and the ICE but things seem to have gone quiet on that front. Maybe electric is taking all the research funding.


As a process, generating biofuel isn't very efficient. Probably the easiest fuel alternative would be some sort of bioethanol fuel which would require relatively modest modifications to existing ICE, but to get it you need a massive crop footprint, then harvest it, ferment it, distil it (using loads of energy in the process). I just can't see it producing enough to satisfy demand.

Electric is probably the way forward; power stations are currently the most efficient way to realise power (be it nuclear, wind, hydro or fossil) and the less changes of energy type the less losses. Just need the tech to evolve and the other issues (of which there are many) to resolve.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 02 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Biofuels have a lot of problems that are hard to overcome. Headline ones:
- They don't cut CO2 emissions, at best they are carbon neutral.
- You still have to deal with non-CO2 emissions.
- You need a lot of land to grow the biomass. This often ends up being land that should be protected habitat, or land that should be used to grow food in developing countries.

None of them are insurmountable problems, but it looks like a lot of work for a sticking-plaster solution. And yes, I am aware that batteries are causing some similar problems.
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 02 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
TLDR
Battery Stations are a solution.
Slip-Out-Slip-In high capacity lithium or some other light weight compound.
Gets around the queuing phaphery.

Could have them at regular petrol stations.



Quality control would be an issue. Stations wouldn't want to be left with a load of duff stuff.

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Jmoan wrote:
What's so hard about sticking some wheels and handle bars onto a box of batteries.


BMS, motor controller handling hundreds of amps, thermal and safety monitoring and managing regenerative braking strategy. They're not milk floats anymore.


Add an extra box for those things too. Razz
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 02 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given we're mostly paying tax in the UK a litre of petrol actually costs about 60 pence. I think Porsche were touting an expected £10 a litre for their biofuels Shocked

A trivial amount for a 6 or 7 figure supercar but expensive enough to keep the plebs out of the game.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 02 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
I am aware that batteries are causing some similar problems.


show your workings!
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MCN
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PostPosted: 06:43 - 03 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Robby wrote:
I am aware that batteries are causing some similar problems.


show your workings!


Mining the Rare Earth Metals is one of the major factors.

China has control of that.

And being rare earth it requires vast open cast mines to find ores and then the energy required to refine.

And we throw batteries in the landfill just now.
Cadmium, Lithium, Nickel and many more alloys.

There is practically zero recycling of many types of batteries.

Except Recovery of lead in auld fashioned Lead Acid batteries highly lucrative industry if we want to just ignore the by-products of that nasty business.


We need to wait until the aliens come back and give us the parts of the energy equations they deliberately left out all those years ago.
Alien bastirts.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 08:26 - 03 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
We need to wait until the aliens come back and give us the parts of the energy equations they deliberately left out all those years ago.
Alien bastirts.

Either they’re slipping us clues or we’re figuring it out for ourselves. Very Happy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57232644#comments

I don’t understand how the apparent “free energy” of fusion could conform to the laws of thermodynamics, but then I suspect many already assume millions of EVs can be fuelled by vast quantities of “clean, green energy” which tumbles miraculously from wall sockets. Stinkwheel is right, society will have to give up on the idea of personal transport, and it’s rumoured that young people already are (although COVID will have hit test numbers and confused the story).

Biofuels do have loads of problems to resolve. I was thinking more of the non-food-sourced generation 2 and especially gen 3s like algal fuel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel

Progress has stalled but what you’ll notice is the wide scope for research, whereas battery tech is simply waiting, waiting, waiting for the next new chemical combo. Recent improvements in battery efficiency have been mainly in manufacturing, ie. purity of materials, economies of scale.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 09:16 - 03 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
Robby wrote:
I am aware that batteries are causing some similar problems.


show your workings!


Cobalt mining in DRC, which is causing a significant ethical problem due to the widespread use of child labour, unsafe working practices, and general exploitation. Lots of fig-leaf words from tech companies about how this is bad, then pushing the problem down the supply chain through a series of shell companies. I am not aware of anyone using ethically-sourced cobalt at scale. This is a problem that can be fixed - fair-trade chocolate is my best easy analogy, that popped up 20 years ago and now it's in cadburys.

For biofuels, most worrying for me is palm oil in Madagascar. This causes habitat loss for lemurs.

I care about lemurs a lot more than I care about people. They have long stripy tails. Cat monkeys.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 03 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Cobalt mining in DRC...


No! Leave that alone. It's the only way the ICE crowd can feel morally superior to the eTwats Laughing

"I may be destroying the planet but at least I'm not exploiting children!"
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:17 - 04 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Electric vehicles get a major pass when it comes to defects / safety issues and quality too.

It's as if because it's green, anything becomes acceptable.


Phantom braking in teslas spring to mind.

Rolling Eyes
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 04 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
Electric vehicles get a major pass when it comes to defects / safety issues and quality too.

It's as if because it's green, anything becomes acceptable.


Phantom braking in teslas spring to mind.

Rolling Eyes


Let's not forget all the Toyota Prius' that would suddenly accelerate for no reason and the only way to stop it was to turn the ignition off or throw it into reverse.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 10:52 - 04 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/manufacturer-news/2020/11/27/vehicle-fire-data-suggests-higher-incident-rate-for-evs
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 04 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

In following the current trend in The SJ wars..

All my bikes now identify as using green energy. Cool

I demand the correct pronoun is used when referring to them.

Coz my rights as a Black Female Transgender Non-Binary Android.
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