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Which midweight faired sports tourer? (Buying in 2 weeks!)

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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 16 Jun 2021    Post subject: Which midweight faired sports tourer? (Buying in 2 weeks!) Reply with quote

Hi All,

Not sure if I should be starting a new thread or continue on someone else's similar post, so please excuse the noob error.

Background: Been riding for ~20 years in India (!) but moved to the UK recently so had to redo my licence after 12 months of being here (of course). And been saving up for aaages.

So long story short - need to get me a ride asap! Looking to get a midweight (600-800 cc) sports tourer within the next 2 weeks (!) - ideally amongst the following:

- Ninja 650 (love it!)
- VFR 800 (love and WANT it!)
- Yamaha Tracer 700 (ooh so delish!)
- BMW F750 GS Sport (waiting to test ride next weekend)

I'm a bit vertically challenged (5'6") and while I have some experience of the upright sports tourers such as Deauville and Tracer 7, I feel more comfortable with getting both my feet nearly planted, and looove the low slung looks of the Ninja and the VFR.

So - couple of questions:

    Which bike among the above would you recommend?

    I'm leaning towards the VFR 800, and a couple of used ones have caught my eye: 2002 VFR800 FI vs a 2018 shiny silver one - what would you recommend?


For comparison:
    2002 VFR800 FI (the 5th gen VFR): 30k miles, Delkevic exhaust, Power Commander PC5, Givi panniers + topbox, for £2800

    2018 VFR800: 14k miles, Black Widow exhaust, for £6500


Any suggestions welcome, TIA!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:45 - 16 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

An '02 VFR800 is the last of the gear driven cam models. All downhill from there.

However, it IS nearly 20 years old so expect to need to freshen it up a bit. Springs, new shock, overhaul brakes etc.

30k miles is nothing to those motors.

Make sure the LCD display is working.

£2800 seems on the pricey side...
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 00:21 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
An '02 VFR800 is the last of the gear driven cam models. All downhill from there.

However, it IS nearly 20 years old so expect to need to freshen it up a bit. Springs, new shock, overhaul brakes etc.

30k miles is nothing to those motors.

Make sure the LCD display is working.

£2800 seems on the pricey side...


Super - excellent pointers that I wasn't thinking of, thank you!

It's from an authorised dealership who're prepared to offer a 3 month warranty (but not sure if that covers shocks/springs/brakes - presume not).

I was thinking of the gear cams too - though I'm not that knowledgeable, and your point echoes my googling. And yes, 30k is hardly run for that engine. Will look to haggle, as I'm happy to do a cash down purchase asap!

(Also as my full UK licence is literally hot off the press, my insurance is a killer - so I probably should be financially prudent, even though I can afford the 2018 one too.)
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virus
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PostPosted: 07:39 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

where abouts are you located? I know of a good condition 5th gen vfr800 going for just under 2k. 45k on the clocks so just about run in for that motor Laughing
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stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:

It's from an authorised dealership who're prepared to offer a 3 month warranty (but not sure if that covers shocks/springs/brakes - presume not).


They'll be working, it's just that they could probably be a lot better. Get a bike like that and spend another £1000-ish on a mid-tier aftermarket shock, linear springs, get the forks serviced and dialled in. Give the brakes a damned good clean up, replace the lines if they're looking iffy, fit decent pads and change all the hydraulic fluid and you've got yourself something really nice.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:
where abouts are you located? I know of a good condition 5th gen vfr800 going for just under 2k. 45k on the clocks so just about run in for that motor Laughing


Thanks @Virus - I'm in Greenwich, London. Please pm if that works better, cheers.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


They'll be working, it's just that they could probably be a lot better. Get a bike like that and spend another £1000-ish on a mid-tier aftermarket shock, linear springs, get the forks serviced and dialled in. Give the brakes a damned good clean up, replace the lines if they're looking iffy, fit decent pads and change all the hydraulic fluid and you've got yourself something really nice.


Sounds brill - thanks! I'd first push them to do a full service before handover, but I guess they wouldn't fix stuff even if nearing eol.

Side note and OT question: With my less than a month old full UK licence, not many dealers offer test rides (insurance..sigh) - and for 2002 VFR, the dealer says if I put the full price down as deposit he's happy for me to take it for a spin. Sound a bit dodgy to you? I'm sure he's covering his risk, and I'm confident I wouldn't drop or crash in a reasonable 20-30 min test ride (am not a speed freak by any stretch) - but feels a bit too risky to put nearly 3 grand down!

(Else he offered to take me around as pillion, which I smiled wryly at - erm, but no thanks, that's no help.)
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Last edited by Bikenomad on 13:50 - 17 Jun 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Evil Hans
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PostPosted: 12:52 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:
the dealer says if I put the full price down as deposit he's happy for me to take it for a spin. Sound a bit dodgy to you?


Not that dodgy, these days. I've heard of a lot of places saying the same thing.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no experience of earlier VFRs, but have a 2019 VFR800X (basically the VFR800F on stilts). Absolutely love it. I can easily flat foot it with a bit of knee bend at 5'10". The VFR800F is lower.

VFRs are heavy, but for touring and general duties are ace. Does the one you've seen come with hard cases? Often they are included in a sale with no apparent impact on price, but to buy afterwards can be costly. Worth seeking a deal with them included (if you're planning to tour). Cost over £700 new which is farcical for what they are.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evil Hans wrote:

Not that dodgy, these days. I've heard of a lot of places saying the same thing.


Thank you, that's really helpful.

(It's my first time buying a used bike in the UK... the only other experience I have is getting a new baby Ninja earlier this year - home delivered without ever seeing it in the flesh!)

ThunderGuts wrote:
Does the one you've seen come with hard cases? Often they are included in a sale with no apparent impact on price, but to buy afterwards can be costly. Worth seeking a deal with them included (if you're planning to tour). Cost over £700 new which is farcical for what they are.


Not the 2018 one, but the 2002 VFR does. And fully agree, I was horrified at first glance at the cost of new Honda or even Givi ones!
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:
Evil Hans wrote:

Not that dodgy, these days. I've heard of a lot of places saying the same thing.


Thank you, that's really helpful.

(It's my first time buying a used bike in the UK... the only other experience I have is getting a new baby Ninja earlier this year - home delivered without ever seeing it in the flesh!)


Agreed, perfectly acceptable. A variation of a "you bend it and you buy it" approach. If it's a dealer I wouldn't be worried, but clearly with a private sale exercise a bit more caution.
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virus
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:
virus wrote:
where abouts are you located? I know of a good condition 5th gen vfr800 going for just under 2k. 45k on the clocks so just about run in for that motor Laughing


Thanks @Virus - I'm in Greenwich, London. Please pm if that works better, cheers.


May be a bit far for your liking, its in Worcestershire. I'll PM it you the phone number for the owner if you want though.
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stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

virus wrote:

May be a bit far for your liking, its in Worcestershire. I'll PM it you the phone number for the owner if you want though.


Yes please - though will be a non-starter if the bike isn't ULEZ compliant...very few pre-2006-07 are likely to be I understand.

(The joys of London.)
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virus
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PostPosted: 22:54 - 17 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:
virus wrote:

May be a bit far for your liking, its in Worcestershire. I'll PM it you the phone number for the owner if you want though.


Yes please - though will be a non-starter if the bike isn't ULEZ compliant...very few pre-2006-07 are likely to be I understand.

(The joys of London.)


PM sent mate
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owned: 85 rat CG (sold), 91 GS500e (stolen), 84 gsx400f (scrapped), 81 z250 (siezed, siezed, scrapped), 83 cb250rs (sold), 84 gpz750r ratfighter (killed) 84gpz400 (sold), '80 cb650 ratfighter (wrote off) 95gsx6/12f ratfighter (killed) 91 xj900 (sold)
stinkwheel Well I just had my hands up a pigs fanny. Which makes your concerns pale into insignificance.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 05:21 - 18 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

VFR - no brainer.

stinkwheel wrote:
£2800 seems on the pricey side...


4th and 5th gens keep going up in price. 30K and in decent nick is about the right money at the moment from a dealer.

To ad to what Stinkwheel said, check the reg/rec (is it stock?) and voltage. Your first port of call when you buy it to clean its contacts and those on the stator. Removes a likely failure point.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 07:13 - 18 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do get an early one and the clocks are still working, check that the plastic cover piece is in place underneath the headlight area at the bottom of the clock cowl - that missing is what allows crud to get up behind the clocks.

If the clocks are misbehaving it's not a complete disaster.

https://vfrworld.com/threads/5th-gen-clock-pcb-repair-w-pics.53437/

Clocks track repair ( i also did it one the one i had) is not complicated as this is pretty simple wiring.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 23:06 - 18 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
VFR - no brainer.

stinkwheel wrote:
£2800 seems on the pricey side...


4th and 5th gens keep going up in price. 30K and in decent nick is about the right money at the moment from a dealer.

To ad to what Stinkwheel said, check the reg/rec (is it stock?) and voltage. Your first port of call when you buy it to clean its contacts and those on the stator. Removes a likely failure point.


Thanks Thumbs Up VFR is what my heart's set on too.

UncleBFester wrote:
If you do get an early one and the clocks are still working, check that the plastic cover piece is in place underneath the headlight area at the bottom of the clock cowl - that missing is what allows crud to get up behind the clocks.

If the clocks are misbehaving it's not a complete disaster.

https://vfrworld.com/threads/5th-gen-clock-pcb-repair-w-pics.53437/

Clocks track repair ( i also did it one the one i had) is not complicated as this is pretty simple wiring.


good stuff, noted! Thumbs Up

ThunderGuts wrote:

Agreed, perfectly acceptable. A variation of a "you bend it and you buy it" approach. If it's a dealer I wouldn't be worried, but clearly with a private sale exercise a bit more caution.


Thanks Thumbs Up

Meanwhile - update - the 2002 VFR - which was ULEZ compliant to boot - is now sold Sad I dilly-dallied too long! ...and most other older ones (pre-2006-07) aren't likely to pass the TfL test (Go live in London, they said. It'll be fun, they said.)

So I've gone with the heart - splurging to put down a take-it-off-the-market deposit on the 17 reg VFR. 14.5k miles, looks spanking new and sounds awesome ...with a Black Widow can.

Can't thank all you folks enough. My first post on the forum ...and got such to-the-point responses - cheers all. Clapping

Will update when I make the final decision, checking out a Ninja 650 tomorrow just to cover off my research.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 11:19 - 30 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
replace the lines if they're looking iffy


It's worth bearing in mind that replacing the brake lines on a 5th gen VFR800 is £300+ and apparently a total bastard of a bleeding job due to the linked brakes setup.

https://www.helperformance.com/honda-vfr800-fiw-fi1-1998-2001-oem-replacement-braided-brake-lines

The front brake on mine is pretty squidgy at the moment, so after new pads and a go at giving them a proper flush and bleed, it might be on the cards for mine. Confused
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 30 Jun 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:

Meanwhile - update - the 2002 VFR - which was ULEZ compliant to boot - is now sold Sad I dilly-dallied too long! ...and most other older ones (pre-2006-07) aren't likely to pass the TfL test (Go live in London, they said. It'll be fun, they said.)

So I've gone with the heart - splurging to put down a take-it-off-the-market deposit on the 17 reg VFR. 14.5k miles, looks spanking new and sounds awesome ...with a Black Widow can.

Can't thank all you folks enough. My first post on the forum ...and got such to-the-point responses - cheers all. Clapping

Will update when I make the final decision, checking out a Ninja 650 tomorrow just to cover off my research.


Nice one. I frequently wonder if I should have got an 800F rather than an 800X, but both are awesome bikes. No doubt plenty will lament the lack of gear-driven cams, but the mod-cons of the new bikes have some real-world practicality.

We want to see some pics when you've got it!
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 09:38 - 01 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zen Dog wrote:


It's worth bearing in mind that replacing the brake lines on a 5th gen VFR800 is £300+ and apparently a total bastard of a bleeding job due to the linked brakes setup.



you might find this video helpful-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXIgkEP_vb8&t=1841s
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kgm
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PostPosted: 10:39 - 01 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of note, the Ninja650 / ER6F isn't in the same league as the VFR. The only thing it does better is fuel economy, everything else the VFR steams ahead.

I had an ER6 for 3 years of daily riding, the VFR that replaced it was so much better.

I concur about the brake lines. I was looking at doing mine and the cost of new ones is mental. The only two things I don't like about the VFR are parts costs (Nearly £400 for two front disks, at full price) and the difficulty of working on it. The jobs aren't hard but everything is awkward to access.
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 11:58 - 06 Jul 2021    Post subject: She's here! Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:


We want to see some pics when you've got it!


Thanks for asking Smile
And the Silver Surfer is here! (attachment below!)

kgm wrote:
Of note, the Ninja650 / ER6F isn't in the same league as the VFR. The only thing it does better is fuel economy, everything else the VFR steams ahead.

I had an ER6 for 3 years of daily riding, the VFR that replaced it was so much better.


Based solely on my ~1 hr test rides of both - couldn't agree more! While the Ninja felt refreshingly light and nimble after the VFR, a near-perfect first 'real' big bike, I felt a lot more planted going around corners on the VFR.
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 06 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice. When the VTEC kicks in . . . Mr. Green
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Bikenomad
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 06 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThunderGuts wrote:
Very nice. When the VTEC kicks in . . . Mr. Green


I think mine being a 2017 model (8th gen?) doesn't have that noticeable difference of the VTEC kicking in. Though tbh, whadoIknow... only been out for a 70 mile warm up ride so far (crazy 60 hr work week atm Sad), not even sure if I got up to 7000 rpm Smile

Off to Cornwall in 3 weeks though! Very Happy
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 06 Jul 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikenomad wrote:
virus wrote:

May be a bit far for your liking, its in Worcestershire. I'll PM it you the phone number for the owner if you want though.


Yes please - though will be a non-starter if the bike isn't ULEZ compliant...very few pre-2006-07 are likely to be I understand.

(The joys of London.)


Most if not all BMW's after 2002 will be ULEZ compliant but you have the get a type approval note from BMW to show it. After 2004 you may find the NOX emission data on the V5c.
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