|
|
| Author |
Message |
| Robby |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Robby
Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :  
|
 Posted: 16:35 - 04 Jul 2021  Post subject: |
 |
|
Lots of us green eco types dislike nuclear too, for lots of reasons. It's bloody expensive, creates dangerous waste that stays dangerous for longer than CO2 stays in the atmosphere, and need to be stored safely and secure for generations.
The general long-term preference is renewables + batteries, with some gas turbines kept available for unusual circumstances, and carbon capture on any of them that operate enough to make it worthwhile.
Short term, just keep building out renewables. They're cheap and getting cheap. Once that reaches saturation and the problem is low wind days and night time, grid battery systems should be commercially viable. |
|
| Back to top |
  |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma : 
|
| Posted: 20:31 - 04 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
| Robby wrote: |
Lots of us green eco types |
How many of you are there? How fast can you run on a treadmill, and for how long can you keep it up? How much electricity could you generate that way? 
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
 |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Robby |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Robby
Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 23:24 - 04 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
| Robby wrote: |
I know this may be hard to understand, but being a green eco type does not mean being a hair-shirt environmentalist, at least not any more. |
Does it mean you don't do humour? you know, like those nasty socialist types? - well, they do, but only about bodily functions.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Bhud |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Bhud
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018
Karma :
|
Posted: 23:34 - 04 Jul 2021  Post subject: |
|
|
| Robby wrote: |
I know this may be hard to understand, but being a green eco type does not mean being a hair-shirt environmentalist, at least not any more. Mostly it comes down to spending a bit more on common things. A green electricity tariff was the cheapest last time I looked, or for some suppliers it was an extra fiver a month. A hybrid car was the cheapest thing to lease a few years ago, and cost less to run than a normal petrol one. Buying meat direct from a local farm means I get really good, organic meat (although they stopped having pigs, which is a ballache).
Green is mainstream now. The world has changed in the last 20 years. |
With respect, hunting around for the best electricity tariff, buying a hybrid car and buying meat from a farmers' market doesn't make a person a "green eco type". It makes you more like average people like us. I don't know what you think we consume, but I, for one, am not unfamiliar with farmers markets, and here, 100+ miles inland, the whole fish you get at farmers markets is palpably inferior to the whole fish you get at Sainsburys. Granted, the boar and apple sausages are superior, but the roasting joints aren't. But this has nothing to do with anything but consumer choices and vertically effective public policy impositions. I am baffled by your repeated stance here, as someone interested in bikes. You and me will get the blame and the tax bill, while your eco heroes will hop around the world on private jets and collect "environmentalist" awards.
A green eco type is someone who stays in a treehouse and makes a mess of the countryside, smoking pot and having a whale of a time while "protesting" HS2. Ambushing HS2 workers in a hotel car park and trying to beat them up (and having the tables turned). Disrupting and intimidating people going about their daily business, and denying them the use of the roads. Issuing death threats to rabbit farmers in Amersham, etc. All of the above have actually happened by the way. THAT's a green eco type. If you think they tolerate your vintage bikes you're under a misapprehension. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Kawasaki Jimbo |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion
Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 00:03 - 05 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
Btw, I'm not against "green" per se. What I am against is the imposition of green measures that have not been properly thought through, or costed, or are simply someone's utopian dream. I'm a realist when it comes to "green". Show me that you have realistic measures ready to go, preferably ones that won't make millions of people poor in the process of implementation, and I'll be on board with you. Or, ones that the better off will pay for to see that those who are not so well off can adopt. Take this green gas boiler replacement initiative currently being touted. If I have to pay for it out of my own pocket, it ain't gonna happen in this house. I barely have enough money to feed myself as it is. Now extend that out to the rest of the world where billions are poor and will use whatever methods of living they have to hand, pay for them too, since this is a global problem, and we might get somewhere. Your optimism is touching, but optimism alone doesn't solve problems like this. Unless of course you yourself are working on technology in which you have great hope? Or are you just assuming someone else is going to solve it all for you?
I don't automatically assume that the necessary technology is going to materialise in the near future, if ever. If it does, and my criteria are met, great.
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Fat Angry Scotsman |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Fat Angry Scotsman
World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Jan 2021
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| xX-Alex-Xx |
This post is not being displayed .
|
xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| wr6133 |
This post is not being displayed .
|
wr6133
World Chat Champion
Joined: 31 Dec 2013
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| chickenstrip |
This post is not being displayed .
|
chickenstrip
Super Spammer
Joined: 06 Dec 2013
Karma :
|
| Posted: 13:29 - 05 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
| wr6133 wrote: | It makes a great example to counter people that argue our government gives a shit about the environment. |
Boris does cos now he has a missus who will withhold sex if he doesn't implement green policies
____________________
Chickenystripgeezer's Biking Life (Latest update 19/10/18) Belgium, France, Italy, Austria tour 2016 Picos de Europa, Pyrenees and French Alps tour 2017 Scotland Trip 1, now with BONUS FEATURE edit, 5/10/19, on page 2 Scotland Trip 2 Luxembourg, Black Forest, Switzerland, Vosges Trip 2017
THERE'S MILLIONS OF CHICKENSTRIPS OUT THERE! |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Robby |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Robby
Dirty Old Man
Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
|
| Posted: 14:08 - 05 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
| Bhud wrote: |
A green eco type is someone who stays in a treehouse and makes a mess of the countryside, smoking pot and having a whale of a time while "protesting" HS2. Ambushing HS2 workers in a hotel car park and trying to beat them up (and having the tables turned). Disrupting and intimidating people going about their daily business, and denying them the use of the roads. Issuing death threats to rabbit farmers in Amersham, etc. All of the above have actually happened by the way. THAT's a green eco type. If you think they tolerate your vintage bikes you're under a misapprehension. |
That would be an extremist. A good stereotype for a green eco type from 20 years ago.
My point is that being green these days is incredibly easy and does not mean becoming a hippy living in the woods. Cutting your carbon emissions in half is surprisingly easy for a lot of people - new boiler, insulation, hybrid or electric car, halve (or more) the number of times you fly. A lot of people making those small changes has a lot more impact on emissions that a few hippies going off-grid.
People having some interest in green issues is a lot more prevalent than it was 20 years ago. Getting back to the nuclear power issue, it doesn't mean a load of normal people are going to lie down in front of bulldozers, but it does mean people will be less inclined to vote for politicians that want to build nuclear (or fossil fuel) power plants.
Oh, on the being green and liking bikes thing - they are not mutually exclusive, I get to be realistic and still enjoy things. If an appropriate and affordable electric bike was available, I would buy it. As it is, I do so few miles a year that I probably burn more energy running the lights in my garage than running my bikes. I'm not making my life shit to get my emissions to zero, I'm making small changes with a big impact that reduce my emissions. |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| xX-Alex-Xx |
This post is not being displayed .
|
xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear
Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Johnnythefox |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Johnnythefox
Traffic Copper
Joined: 01 Dec 2016
Karma : 
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Bhud |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Bhud
World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Oct 2018
Karma :
|
| Posted: 19:55 - 05 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
| Robby wrote: | That would be an extremist. A good stereotype for a green eco type from 20 years ago. |
Yes, it's extremism. However, it's not redundant because all of the things I mentioned happen during the lockdown, not 20 years ago - not even 20 months ago.
| Quote: | My point is that being green these days is incredibly easy and does not mean becoming a hippy living in the woods. |
If you change your boiler you're just updating your house and your boiler change isn't getting into the local paper. You're still an NPC in that situation. The people who drive the "green" agenda are extremists, and they have no idea about any line in the sand you've drawn for yourself. The moderates have no lobby group or influence. You are saying there is a certain amount of change you will tolerate. Sure, I understand that. But they don't. In fact, they couldn't care less about the measures you're willing - or not willing - to take to change your life. They are not in a race to compromise with you, me or anyone. They are dictating the agenda.
| Quote: | Oh, on the being green and liking bikes thing - they are not mutually exclusive, I get to be realistic and still enjoy things. If an appropriate and affordable electric bike was available, I would buy it. |
How many green eco warriors have read your green overtures or care about what you're saying? I'll wager: none at all.
I was watching that Canadian bloke's Youtube channel where he discusses electric bikes. One of the things he said which made me lol was that electric bikes have less faffing around involved. You don't "lose half a day" on your cylinder head. That was one of his examples. So, in a sense he's "into" bikes. But his mentality is completely different from mine. I think the same applies in this conversation. You say you're interested in bikes, and on the face of it this is something we have in common. Well, actually, we might not, insofar as our psychological motives for our respective claimed interest are completely different. I am not looking for a bike that will let me spend more time in front of a screen. I much prefer the bike that forces me to spend a day or two on a cylinder head.
What I'm getting at is, you may think, well here's a way to enjoy the trails in silence, so why not get an electric bike and feel like I'm a part of the new era. Well, to me that's in the same class as more fun hobbies. It's fine, but there's also more fun stuff, like jet skiing, sky-diving, even ocean swimming. Plus mountain biking gets you some exercise. I mean, part of the point of a leisure bike is that there is some uncertainty in it. The bike isn't taking you to a job. It isn't taking you to the pub. No, it's a series of mechanisms that all have to work exactly right, and it feeds back your own values to you. It tells you what you've done right and what you've done wrong, and what you might have neglected. It shows you what might be improved. It's a continual conversation.
If you join a chess club and bring along a chess computer to help you, because it's faster and saves you so much time, and is more accurate, etc. then where's the point in that?
I don't know you but I think you know all this stuff already, and what you really want to say is that your life experience with bikes is so radically different from most, that you've "been there done that" and are now done with bikes. I mean, in the sense of messing about with them. Sure, you're interested in bikes and you enjoy them in your own way and that will never leave you. But let's call a spade a spade here. I can buy an old KZ and get the manuals, watch a load of Youtube videos, join specific forums for that bike, learn how to do all sorts of stuff, mess up things and have to buy 3 sets of throttle cables, play around with engine mods, etc. and to me that's entertaining and fulfilling, but to you that's a primitive 2-cylinder aircooled engine, and it's all boring now. Am I right? So you're looking for different things.
Like I say, there is considerable overlay between all our interests and expectations. But the mindset and opinions you espouse aren't driving the agenda here. You seem intelligent and you are no doubt aware of this, but you may think this tidal wave is only going to brush aside things you're more or less already done with. This is where we differ. This thing knows no boundaries, and it's about nothing but money and power. It brushes aside individuals, communities and nations. Yesterday diesels were green and tomorrow your electric will be toxic. This is how it works. You will recall the acid rain panic in the 80s.
Why is it OK to destroy the green belt and natural wildlife habitats by hundreds of acres to build unsustainable housing, but it's not OK for a guy to ride a stroker through a forest, say, once a month? This feat of illogic is all because of mass psychological manipulation. This is being orchestrated by politicians and the mass media. Big data and even machine learning helps this process along. It's called the availability cascade:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_cascade
Nothing to do with saving the trees. Look around - they're being felled everywhere. Wildlife habitats destroyed, water polluted, etc. It's happening right outside your window, in this very country, right now. It's happening everywhere, and it sweeps aside everything actually good in the name of the "grea'er good". |
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| GettinBetter |
This post is not being displayed .
|
GettinBetter
Crazy Courier
Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Tdibs |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Tdibs
Traffic Copper
Joined: 16 Jan 2015
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| mentalboy |
This post is not being displayed .
|
mentalboy
World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 May 2012
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| xX-Alex-Xx |
This post is not being displayed .
|
xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
|
| Posted: 09:00 - 07 Jul 2021 Post subject: |
|
|
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| Polarbear |
This post is not being displayed .
|
Polarbear
Super Spammer
Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
|
| xX-Alex-Xx |
This post is not being displayed .
|
xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion
Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
|
|
| Back to top |
| |
You must be logged in to rate posts |
|
 |
Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 2 years, 287 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
 |
|
|
Help & FAQs
Search BCF
Members
Groups
Events Calendar
rating
rating