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pepperami |
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pepperami Super Spammer
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:40 - 23 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Managed to remove the chain guard from the swinging arm of Project Scrappy Hyosung.
Severe Corrosion meant it wasn’t straightforward, however the rattle gun won in the end .
Cleaned up the swinging arm ready for a lick of paint. ____________________ I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now! |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 19:36 - 23 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Soon it won't be hardly scrappy at all.
Paint, you say! Will it all be the same colour? ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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pepperami |
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pepperami Super Spammer
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Bloggsy |
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Bloggsy Spanner Monkey
Joined: 08 Feb 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:35 - 24 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Took it out for a fifty mile blast ____________________ If It Aint broke Don't Fix It |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 15:20 - 25 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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The GSX750 has now been MOT'd
Probably a bit of dicking around to do for the ULEZ thingy but that's got to wait til the DVLA get their finger out and send me the V5.
Tempted to have it delivered back to the Senior Consort's house so that I can ride it once I've taxed it, but ... maybe its better if I continue to be patient. ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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to v or not to v |
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to v or not to v World Chat Champion
Joined: 24 Nov 2020 Karma :
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 23:24 - 26 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Put the correct map on the old fella's Harley. It's an improvement but not the silky smooth he's used to from the KZ1000, chalk and cheese obvs but I don't know how refined you can make a 650lb lump hammer
The T140 is continuing to be tricksy on the starting. The other day it was 2nd kick and today it's "fucking start ya bastard!" My money's on the coils being tired. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:26 - 30 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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It's been a week since I put the ETZ250 back together.
Went for a quick test ride to-day to run it in a bit, and get out in the Sun.
But it was soon apparent that an old problem has come back to haunt me, namely the idle gets a bit lumpy and then sometimes the bike stalls and then runs backwards all on it's own. Ughh.. It was funny in 2017, but not now.
I put many hours into the issue years ago including going as far as rebuilding the engine with a different crankshaft but nothing worked. It still ran backwards- so in frustration I bought an electronic ignition unit, but after a while I got bored of that, and it was still running backwards anyway- I put the points back on and it NEVER EVER ran backwards again until now... ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (bored to 295cc) - 38k, 1990 MZ ETZ251 - 49k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 11:09 - 30 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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blurredman wrote: | It's been a week since I put the ETZ250 back together.
Went for a quick test ride to-day to run it in a bit, and get out in the Sun.
But it was soon apparent that an old problem has come back to haunt me, namely the idle gets a bit lumpy and then sometimes the bike stalls and then runs backwards all on it's own. |
without re-starting? Blimey! ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:24 - 30 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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The timing is on point, I even tried my tests on fully retarded and it still ran backwards, the problem presumably is some sort of chatter, that occurs around the TDC range, one which was eliminated in 2018 when I re-installed standard setup, quite by accident. The reason the electronic ignition I had tried allowed backwards running was because design (two magnets on the rotor, about 45 degrees from eachother). I later sold that. Useless.
Gaskets are the same (aluminium) ones I had on before I took the crankshaft out to replace the main bearings. Squish band is nice.
One thought perhaps is that I set the points gap a little bit more than 0.3mm (maybe 0.4 which is permissible according to the manual).
Chatter is more evident in contact breakers which don't open very far. It's quite a fine running bike when actually 'riding'.
Equally so, it's worth going over the cam with some polish maybe. Plus potentially, I know there is also a washer between the cam and the stator rotor, removing that washer which measures about 1-1.5mm thick can allow the shoe to ride on a slightly different, and maybe less rugged surface of the cam - so this may or may not help too. There isn't any rust on the cam and on quick inspection yesterday it didn't seem excessively scored- I mean, the contact breaker shoe is only plastic after all.
I don't have a spare cam, the one I do have is for 6v models. The spare that I did have was stolen outside the DAF museum in Eindhoven in 2017. ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (bored to 295cc) - 38k, 1990 MZ ETZ251 - 49k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:51 - 31 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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All I tried last night didn't work.
When the bike did it last in '17/'18, I did all sorts as mentioned, rebuilt engine with different crankshaft (still the same one it has now), I put on standar piston and barrel with standard spec squish/head gasket thickness, did everything I could, and it still ran backwards. Which as I say is when I gave up and put a crappy electronic ignition on which also gave allowance of backwards running. I removed it months later and to put the points back on just out of curiosity and it was never and issue again until sunday. Very curious. The annoying thing is of course, I never got a proper resolution- it just worked, when before it didn't.
I'm going to swap ignition systems between my 251 and the 250. Would be interesting to see if 251 runs backwards. That currently has electronic ignition, so putting that on the 250 would also be interesting to see what happens. ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (bored to 295cc) - 38k, 1990 MZ ETZ251 - 49k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 12:22 - 31 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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I wish you all the luck in the world but inherently 2-stroke is a reversible system. It's only continued momentum that keeps it going in a particular direction. Timing-wise, advance turns into retard, retard to advance so really all you're affecting is the quality of the running and as this happens when the engine's technically stopped, as you've discovered, timing can only discourage rather than fix the problem. With enough experimentation you might find a sweet spot with the timing where it goes backwards a lot and... errr... not do that
A few people [on the Interwebs] have alluded to compression affecting things but I suspect it only vaguely alters the frequency of occurrence. About the only practical thing I can think of that won't exactly fix the issue but might head off the opportunity is to raise the idle speed so you're less likely to stall ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:01 - 31 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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Yes, it's true- there are still things I can look at, timing aside- you're right about compression, and I am still going to be taking the head off and checking stuff. First problem I potentially did- I never checked total height of piston in relation to the old, nor even gudgeon pin reference etc. I need to clarify things on those basic levels again first perhaps.
The standard compression is 10ish to 1. But i've had 12ish to 1 before now and not had this problem occur.
I had a thought- there's no point putting on the EI from the 251, if that also would spark with the engine rotating reversely. I can make a quick and easy test on that by just putting it in gear with the spark plug out (in cap) and seeing if I get spark rotating the back wheel, backwards. I've tried it with other electronic ignitions and they have allowed it, but never with this (no need to), so will be interesting for me to see. After all, it's typically just a magnet so any sweep in any direction normally would give the signal and give spark. But some EI's might be more clever. Anyway. ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (bored to 295cc) - 38k, 1990 MZ ETZ251 - 49k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 18:12 - 31 Aug 2022 Post subject: |
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I don't see how the EI can know the direction unless there's some asymmetrical arrangement of pickups that could make the guessing easier ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
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DrSnoosnoo |
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DrSnoosnoo World Chat Champion
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blurredman |
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blurredman World Chat Champion
Joined: 18 Sep 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 12:27 - 01 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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Easy-X wrote: | I don't see how the EI can know the direction unless there's some asymmetrical arrangement of pickups that could make the guessing easier |
Exactly! It's just a magnet. But sometimes you get smart electronics. Either way, I tested with spark plug out and in cap and turned the back wheel and it sparks backwards too as expected.
But I did take the piston out of the backwards running bike. Compared it to the old piston it replaced (same size). Same gudeon pin to crown height etc, all dimensions the same give or take nothing. So, with the same amount of headgasket on, squish and compression is theoretically exactly the same as before. But I thought it worth checking your thoughts.
Guess I need to look elsewhere. Might be a thing I need to ponder on for a while, swap around more crap. ____________________ CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S.
Current: 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (bored to 295cc) - 38k, 1990 MZ ETZ251 - 49k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 9k, 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 17k. |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
Joined: 08 Mar 2019 Karma :
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Posted: 13:14 - 01 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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Just as an aside here's an example of how you'd sense direction with an optical wheel:
https://www.labbookpages.co.uk/circuits/wheelEncoder.html
tl;dr two sensors and you arrange things so the pulse overlaps hint at the direction.
Anyhoo, you can fiddle with the timing to make reversibility slightly easier or harder but probably better off chasing down why the engine stalls and fix that. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Easy-X |
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Easy-X Super Spammer
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Posted: 12:27 - 03 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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All of a sudden the old fella's KZ1000 won't start or, more accurately, the starter motor won't turn as it kicks over fine.
Started going over it with a multimeter only to discover the first one out the drawer's a dud Took the switch assembly apart and gave it a clean, still wouldn't start, turns out it's the clutch lever safety switch. ____________________ Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter |
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Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Aug 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 14:42 - 03 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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Took the rear wheel of the VFR750 for powder coating. £60. Should be ready Monday or Tuesday apparently. The guy does car wheels mainly, but because of the single sided nature of the VFR the wheel has no disk posts, bearing seats or anything to worry about, it just needs masking in the same place as a car wheel, so I'm hoping it should be ok. I've asked him to have a look for any cracks while he's sandblasting the wheel too, it is pretty flaky and 27 years old. ____________________ Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011 |
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hellkat |
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hellkat Super Spammer
Joined: 12 Jul 2004 Karma :
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Posted: 18:56 - 07 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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Had a conversation with the Suzuki-fixing man today
Its got something wrong with something something number 2, and he's sonically cleaned it but they stripped it down and found a chunk out of an O ring (does that sound right?) - so they replaced that and then they tested it, something to do with number 1 and 4, and then number 2 and 3, and it worked fine, but number 2 was doing something funky still ... I got a bit lost at that point.
But apparently we've agreed for him to strip it back down, have a look if he can find stuck gunk, and then maybe if necessary give it a second ultrasound, and then reconsider.
So yeah. I might ring the Harley-fixing guy tomorrow and find out what's the latest news* on that, just to cheer myself up
*(none, I assume as he hasnt rung me in a month ) ____________________ Not nearly as interesting in real life. |
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A100man |
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A100man World Chat Champion
Joined: 19 Aug 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:05 - 08 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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hellkat wrote: | Had a conversation with the Suzuki-fixing man today
Its got something wrong with something something number 2, and he's sonically cleaned it but they stripped it down and found a chunk out of an O ring (does that sound right?) - so they replaced that and then they tested it, something to do with number 1 and 4, and then number 2 and 3, and it worked fine, but number 2 was doing something funky still ... I got a bit lost at that point.
But apparently we've agreed for him to strip it back down, have a look if he can find stuck gunk, and then maybe if necessary give it a second ultrasound, and then reconsider.
So yeah. I might ring the Harley-fixing guy tomorrow and find out what's the latest news* on that, just to cheer myself up
*(none, I assume as he hasnt rung me in a month ) |
Four cylinders 1,2,3,4 from left to right as you sit on the bike. Each one has a separate carb. The carbs have o-rings which can fail.
The pistons in cylinders go up and down in pairs 1&4 and 2&3 (generally). These pairs share an ignition circuit and a coil which makes teh sparks.
If a coil fails then it can therefore bring down two cylinders.
Got it? ____________________ Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750
Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600 |
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recman |
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recman World Chat Champion
Joined: 26 Mar 2012 Karma :
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Posted: 10:08 - 08 Sep 2022 Post subject: |
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A100man wrote: | hellkat wrote: | Had a conversation with the Suzuki-fixing man today
Its got something wrong with something something number 2, and he's sonically cleaned it but they stripped it down and found a chunk out of an O ring (does that sound right?) - so they replaced that and then they tested it, something to do with number 1 and 4, and then number 2 and 3, and it worked fine, but number 2 was doing something funky still ... I got a bit lost at that point.
But apparently we've agreed for him to strip it back down, have a look if he can find stuck gunk, and then maybe if necessary give it a second ultrasound, and then reconsider.
So yeah. I might ring the Harley-fixing guy tomorrow and find out what's the latest news* on that, just to cheer myself up
*(none, I assume as he hasnt rung me in a month ) |
Four cylinders 1,2,3,4 from left to right as you sit on the bike. Each one has a separate carb. The carbs have o-rings which can fail.
The pistons in cylinders go up and down in pairs 1&4 and 2&3 (generally). These pairs share an ignition circuit and a coil which makes teh sparks.
If a coil fails then it can therefore bring down two cylinders.
Got it? |
There. Now be told! |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 1 year, 223 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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