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Apple to scan iPhones for child sex abuse images

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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Apple to scan iPhones for child sex abuse images Reply with quote

Apple to scan iPhones for child sex abuse images

Obviously anything that catches pedos I'm all for however even I can see that this could be manipulated to look for other things as insinuated in the article.

Of course there is 'If you've nothing to hide' and I don't know how easily this could be set up to check for other things. BLM, Stormfront, Muslim terrorists etc. The possibilities are endless.

I'm sure there are already many agencies using this sort of thing whether openly or covertly and it isn't going to go away but Apple openly admitting they are applying tracking type software to their phones is a first is it not?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58109748
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually it's comparing the images against known kiddie porn when being backed up to the icloud and not tracking software.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 10:43 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Actually it's comparing the images against known kiddie porn when being backed up to the icloud and not tracking software.


Fair shout but I was using tracking as an all encompassing term for checking up on people which it very much could be used for.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 12:14 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being honest about it is a step in the right direction. I just presumed that they did anyway.
We all have something that we rather others not see or know about, be it the wife wearing a gimp outfit or having a fetish over the Krankies.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assume anything that in any way could connect to the Internet - now or at some point in the future - is effectively public information and you won't go too far wrong. The Internet is basically the 21st Century version of the Catholic omniscient God Shocked
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doggone
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It will be subject to increased misuse by degrees, you can easily imagine anyone with un-PC views (so most here then) being especially scrutinised.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

And what do you think google photos, youtube and facebook do with everything you upload?
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martin734
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't have a problem with this, most major search engines and a lot of ISP's have been doing this for years. This is how so many pervs get caught.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

They are only going to catch the stupid ones anyway.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's only on the uploads to their server, but it is an issue once they start searching your device. Google has been doing this on uploads to Google Photos for ages. On the politics front the IWF are very left wing so you can expect them to be eager to crack down on anything Conservative.

Either way I expect a LOT of people to get caught from this. Unintended consequences could be an issue. Imagine someone has a couple of dodgy images from the list, house gets raided, inevitable divorce, 15% suicide rate, both sides pushed into a precarious financial state, and much worse outcome for their kids.

Does Bill Clinton still use an iPhone? Thinking

martin734 wrote:
I don't have a problem with this, most major search engines and a lot of ISP's have been doing this for years. This is how so many pervs get caught.


Sounds good until someone sticks some indecent kid images on your phone to get you in trouble. Colleague who thinks they are funny? Someone angry you got the promotion? Messy divorce?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Either way I expect a LOT of people to get caught from this. Unintended consequences could be an issue. Imagine someone has a couple of dodgy images from the list, house gets raided, inevitable divorce, 15% suicide rate, both sides pushed into a precarious financial state, and much worse outcome for their kids.

Consequences of having child porn do include things like houses being raided, family being less than happy to hear about the dodgy images, etc etc etc.

The child abuse images Apple will be looking won't be the type of images that you could unintentional come across and accidentally have on your phone.

Do people who've got such images on their phone not deserve to be caught regardless of how many images they've got?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Either way I expect a LOT of people to get caught from this. Unintended consequences could be an issue. Imagine someone has a couple of dodgy images from the list, house gets raided, inevitable divorce, 15% suicide rate, both sides pushed into a precarious financial state, and much worse outcome for their kids.

Consequences of having child porn do include things like houses being raided, family being less than happy to hear about the dodgy images, etc etc etc.

The child abuse images Apple will be looking won't be the type of images that you could unintentional come across and accidentally have on your phone.

Do people who've got such images on their phone not deserve to be caught regardless of how many images they've got?


Child abuse images include any image on the IWF list so any sexual or nude image of a person under 18, who appears to be under 18 or any cartoon depicting someone under 18.

They can definitely be caught, but this is suppopsedly about "harm reduction" or so the police claim. If thats the case then you have to consider the harms caused by the raiding team on innocent third parties. Remember their wife and kids didn't view the child porn!

Also racists, sexists, homophobes, people who misgender and deadname, people who question cornavirus and vaccine, people who vote UKIP or Brexit Party or Trump all deserve to be raided too right? I'm sure the IWF would agree that all of these are a threat to children too!
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martin734
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:

Child abuse images include any image on the IWF list so any sexual or nude image of a person under 18, who appears to be under 18 or any cartoon depicting someone under 18.

They can definitely be caught, but this is suppopsedly about "harm reduction" or so the police claim. If thats the case then you have to consider the harms caused by the raiding team on innocent third parties. Remember their wife and kids didn't view the child porn!

Also racists, sexists, homophobes, people who misgender and deadname, people who question cornavirus and vaccine, people who vote UKIP or Brexit Party or Trump all deserve to be raided too right? I'm sure the IWF would agree that all of these are a threat to children too!

The same can be said of any crime, whenever someone commits a crime their family is affected. Just because the person viewing or downloading the child porn has an innocent family, it does not mean that they should not feel the full weight of the law. In fact it may make their family safer if they are caught and stopped, especially if they have young children.

As far as I am aware, questioning Coronavirus or the vaccine or voting for Trump, Brexit or UKIP party is not illegal and to suggest that they pose a comparable risk to children as child porn is utterly ridiculous. Racists, sexists, Homophobes and Transphobes may or may not be breaking the law, if they are then this should also be investigated.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:37 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

martin734 wrote:

The same can be said of any crime, whenever someone commits a crime their family is affected. Just because the person viewing or downloading the child porn has an innocent family, it does not mean that they should not feel the full weight of the law. In fact it may make their family safer if they are caught and stopped, especially if they have young children.

As far as I am aware, questioning Coronavirus or the vaccine or voting for Trump, Brexit or UKIP party is not illegal and to suggest that they pose a comparable risk to children as child porn is utterly ridiculous. Racists, sexists, Homophobes and Transphobes may or may not be breaking the law, if they are then this should also be investigated.


In the case of a genuine paedophile then yes the children may well be safer. But most of the cases picked up are likely to be more borderline. Of course its very unlikely they would ever be convicted because the CPS won't think its worth bothering, but the damage to that family is still done. That said even genuine paedophiles get very little punishment.

It's not up to you though, it's up to groups like the IWF. We shall see what they consider unacceptable as the scheme "expands and evolves" to use Apple's terminology. Not that its my problem anyway, I don't have an iPhone Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Ste
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PostPosted: 07:56 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
In the case of a genuine paedophile then yes the children may well be safer. But most of the cases picked up are likely to be more borderline. Of course its very unlikely they would ever be convicted because the CPS won't think its worth bothering, but the damage to that family is still done. That said even genuine paedophiles get very little punishment.

How many images of child abuse does someone have to have to be considered a genuine peado rather than a borderline paedo?

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
you have to consider the harms caused by the raiding team on innocent third parties. Remember their wife and kids didn't view the child porn!

You can't blame the fallout of paedo's being caught on the people who caught them and raid the paedo's house. The blame for that lies entirely with the paedo themselves.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Putting aside the fact that borderline paedos who "just" have a couple of images of child abuse will get caught as well as genuine paedos, here's a nice explanation of how such a system could be misused by authorities:

https://archive.is/L9AFj
https://towardsdatascience.com/black-box-attacks-on-perceptual-image-hashes-with-gans-cc1be11f277

I see those concerns as much more real than the inevitable fallout from borderline paedos being caught.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

How many images of child abuse does someone have to have to be considered a genuine peado rather than a borderline paedo?


3.141 images.

Im-a-Ridah wrote:

You can't blame the fallout of paedo's being caught on the people who caught them and raid the paedo's house. The blame for that lies entirely with the paedo themselves.


But you're still paying for their kids to go into care, and if they lose their job you're paying their benefits, all out of your taxes Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


But you're still paying for their kids to go into care, and if they lose their job you're paying their benefits, all out of your taxes Laughing


Isn't that preferable than leaving kids in a kiddle fiddlers house?
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


But you're still paying for their kids to go into care, and if they lose their job you're paying their benefits, all out of your taxes Laughing


Isn't that preferable than leaving kids in a kiddle fiddlers house?


Please define kiddly fiddler. The law states that having a cartoon depiction of someone 17 and 364 days old in a suggestive pose is child porn aka kiddy fiddler.

1 image is enough. Just ask Acting Chief Superintendent Novlett Robyn Williams

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2021/06/16/21/44315695-9694411-image-a-1_1623876914833.jpg
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 01:45 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseEzv29mu4
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Ste
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The law states that having a cartoon depiction of someone 17 and 364 days old in a suggestive pose is child porn aka kiddy fiddler.

1 image is enough. Just ask Acting Chief Superintendent Novlett Robyn Williams

Are you saying she had a cartoon depicting someone who's 17 and 364 days old in a suggestive pose rather than a video of child abuse?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah has borderline child porn on his iphone?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QseEzv29mu4


Argh! The way people pronounce "trolling" and "troll" like "doll" Sad The word is Old Norse, specifically "tröll"
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:31 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The law states that having a cartoon depiction of someone 17 and 364 days old in a suggestive pose is child porn aka kiddy fiddler.

1 image is enough. Just ask Acting Chief Superintendent Novlett Robyn Williams

Are you saying she had a cartoon depicting someone who's 17 and 364 days old in a suggestive pose rather than a video of child abuse?


I'm saying that is what counts as child porn according to the government. Clearly such a person is no real danger to children, compared to say a primary school teacher with porn involving primary students, for example. In the former case the police would be causing more harm than the offender.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Im-a-Ridah has borderline child porn on his iphone?


I don't even have an iPhone so that would take some doing.
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