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Are we on the verge of societal collapse

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doggone
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PostPosted: 19:33 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Are we on the verge of societal collapse Reply with quote

If so the first thing will be shut down of internet/phone/power.
After that pretty much nothing will work any more it will be chaos within hours.

So far the supposed 'success' of vaccines is just about holding things together ... But the most vaccinated countries are starting to run into big problems which might yet be worse than not vaccinating at all.

This in itself would be bad enough but the absurd £400bn UK has spent is the real problem. We were broke before that.
Add in the obsession with green issues making normal life impossible for large sections of society - it is not going to end well.

I see the WEF and UN cozying up further in the news today.

Next winter is going to be crunch time as they can't get gas to keep power going at any price as Russia would rather sell at lower price to favoured countries.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:45 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nurse! He's hiding his meds again!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
Nurse! He's hiding his meds again!


Islander, what will be the economic repercussions of this pandemic, or will there be no problems to face? I'm not talking about you as an individual, but for national economies.
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Tracey Suntan-King
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmmm Thinking

Looks like our (Brexit) stockpile of tinned & dried food - that you all scoffed at - will come in handy after all. Even if most of it is past its “best before date”.

How d’ya like them (tinned) apples losers? Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The World in general? Always going to hell in a handcart at any given moment. But as far as Western Civilisation is concerned I'd be a bit worried if I were American.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
Hmmmm Thinking

Looks like our (Brexit) stockpile of tinned & dried food - that you all scoffed at - will come in handy after all. Even if most of it is past its “best before date”.

How d’ya like them (tinned) apples losers? Wink


Tinned and dried food? Pfft. If you've got enough of a loo roll stockpile, you can survive even the zombie apocalypse Thumbs Up
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Tracey Suntan-King wrote:
Hmmmm Thinking

Looks like our (Brexit) stockpile of tinned & dried food - that you all scoffed at - will come in handy after all. Even if most of it is past its “best before date”.

How d’ya like them (tinned) apples losers? Wink


Tinned and dried food? Pfft. If you've got enough of a loo roll stockpile, you can survive even the zombie apocalypse Thumbs Up

We haven’t exhausted the supply of cats and dogs yet.
(For food, not loo roll.)
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

We haven’t exhausted the supply of cats and dogs yet.
(For food, not loo roll.)


Don't knock alternative uses for things Wink
Washable too Very Happy
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:38 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP asks the question and then assumes the answer is yes without attempting to explain why.
Who is going to shutdown the internet/phones/power, and why?

OP then supposes unspecified post-vaccine program problems.

I suspect national debt isn’t like normal debt, it’s almost imaginary. Invented money/credit.

Regarding gas supplies, I believe we get most of it from Norway, the Netherlands and Qatar, with a trial 1% from Russia a while ago. Costs will go up but we’re unlikely to be cut off.

I admit I’ve been concerned by the polarisation of politics but I think we’re a long way from Spanish Civil War levels; the left has gone further than the right. I used to think of myself as a Socialist but they don’t seem to represent decent, hard-working families anymore
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

These concpiracies forget that the conservation goes a bit like this...
Government: Turn off the power station so people won't have any power
Power station workers: Why?
Government: We want all the powser stations turned off.
Power station workers: Umm No...

People who run these services are not idiots.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


I admit I’ve been concerned by the polarisation of politics but I think we’re a long way from Spanish Civil War levels; the left has gone further than the right. I used to think of myself as a Socialist but they don’t seem to represent decent, hard-working families anymore


And the right has been pulled further left with them. Apart from the hordes of far right nazis that are everywhere, obviously Laughing
McCarthyism in reverse.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 06 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyway, I don't think we're so much on the verge of societal collapse as a re-engineering of society. The question is, can society be artificially re-engineered successfully? I can't think of anyone I'd trust to decide how to do it. Those who want to try should probably be locked tightly away from society.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:00 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
a re-engineering of society.

I’m not so sure. For example, Covid’s ‘working from home’ had the potential to revolutionise commuting, and therefore the road/rail network and even the housing market. Employers hailed this new way of working and talked of insights to be carried forward. Those of us nominated as “critical workers” and attending site were hoping our roles were being re-evaluated and respected, and there was some of that, but now they’re steering all staff back to site-working. It feels like we’ll be going right back to normal. A missed opportunity if societal re-engineering was anyone’s aim.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the opposite at my place. The whole site is being reconfigured from mostly desks to mostly collaberation spaces (metting rooms/areas) and I'm only going to start going in a couple of days a week to break the monotony of sitting in my house all day every day.

Prior to COVID up to 12 thousand could be on site every day, when I go in now I play a game of 'people or geese' where I try and guess which of them I will see more of.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:44 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
a re-engineering of society.

I’m not so sure. For example, Covid’s ‘working from home’ had the potential to revolutionise commuting, and therefore the road/rail network and even the housing market. Employers hailed this new way of working and talked of insights to be carried forward. Those of us nominated as “critical workers” and attending site were hoping our roles were being re-evaluated and respected, and there was some of that, but now they’re steering all staff back to site-working. It feels like we’ll be going right back to normal. A missed opportunity if societal re-engineering was anyone’s aim.


I think the re-engineering comes more out of climate change panic. Covid is a short term and minor thing by comparison if the climate change pushers are to be believed. And it is clear that they are being believed, wholesale, whatever any of us as individuals think.

Look at how academics and scientists have taken worst case scenarios so seriously, and governments have jumped on that end of the scale to forge Covid policy. How will things look if they do the same with the potential horrors of climate change? How much further could that prompt governments to go? Even though there is much disagreement over how severe things will get, those who say things aren't so bad are ignored. If you're making policy for the masses, how much does the responsibility weigh on your shoulders? But on the other side of the coin, how much are the potential disasters of overcompensation being considered? I see little of that side of the discussion among policy makers, as we didn't with Covid.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Covid is absolutely nothing in the overall scheme of things. According to Worldometer it has killed 4,294,317 which is bugger all in a world population of 7.5 billion.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Climate change has the potential to be horrendous. If large swathes of the world where food is grown become less productive or even infertile then the mass migration to more temperate climates will make the immigrant 'swarm' of the past few years seem like nothing.

Will it happen, yes it will. There is no way we can stop it now. Maybe we can slow it down to give more time to put in contingency plans but in the end it going to happen. Will it mean the end of society as we know it? Probably not but a lot of people will die, and by a lot I would expect that to be in the billions.

When this happens people in the more temperate regions will be welcoming the migrants with guns, not food packages.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apparently Great Britain and New Zealand are the best places to live with regards to societal collapse, mainly due to their moat-like natures. The climate-change migrants would need warships to cross the channel - a rubber dinghy being sunk before getting half way.
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TbirdX
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PostPosted: 22:29 - 07 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are we on the verge of societal collapse


No, next question.
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 15:08 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

And the right has been pulled further left with them.


lol

I guess the mass privatisation, the funding cuts, anti-immigrant rhetoric, windrush scandal, our tommeh, hard Brexit, oh and a full decade of Conservative government victories, just didn't happen in your world.
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UncleFester
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evidence that proves labour would have been better please?

That's the issue with politics today. All the opposition do is rubbish the opposition instead of focusing on providing a creditable alternative.

Which is why we've had 10 years of Conservative.

That's not the fault of anyone but the opposition.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

UncleBFester wrote:
Evidence that proves labour would have been better please?

That's the issue with politics today. All the opposition do is rubbish the opposition instead of focusing on providing a creditable alternative.

Which is why we've had 10 years of Conservative.

That's not the fault of anyone but the opposition.


Exactly.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:34 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord Percy wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

And the right has been pulled further left with them.


lol

I guess the mass privatisation, the funding cuts, anti-immigrant rhetoric, windrush scandal, our tommeh, hard Brexit, oh and a full decade of Conservative government victories, just didn't happen in your world.


I was thinking about a longer term view than that, since the 60s. And not just government, but western society generally. In a way, conservatism has been left behind - certainly what you think of as conservatism. All those things you mention above are not the views and perspective of the majority.
So how come the Tories still get elected? If conservative ideals are no longer relevant, they must have adopted something else. Do you think they'd still get elected if they had moved even further right? Do you actually think you live in a nation of fascists? Laughing

It does make me laugh though when folks like you and Nobby attack the Tories as if it's any water off my back Laughing
My advice is to forget ideologies and look for what works. And society needs more than investment in libraries and youth centres.
I'll tell you what though. If you think society will get what it needs from ANY kind of government, prepare for a life of perpetual disappointment.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:25 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and btw:

Lord Percy wrote:


I guess the mass privatisation, the funding cuts, anti-immigrant rhetoric, windrush scandal, our tommeh, hard Brexit, oh and a full decade of Conservative government victories, just didn't happen in your world.


No, they didn't, in a very real sense. Now see if you can go figure out why not Wink
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

And here's another question to ask yourself: if Labour had been in government for the last ten years, what do you think you'd be complaining about now?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 08 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
And here's another question to ask yourself: if Labour had been in government for the last ten years, what do you think you'd be complaining about now?


Of course we'd be complaining about them but the eye-opener is that despite not being in power for 10 years and the pandemic with 130000 deaths. Despite the BLM shit, despite the wonderful things Labour were going to give us (free internet Rolling Eyes ), despite their love of tearing down British statues and hating Britain etc. etc. they are still behind the conservatives in the polls. They either scrape or lose by elections in areas they held for 50+ lose when they should be walking them.

If the Tories are as bad as most people think they are (and they are!), what the electorate feel about Labour must be dogshit on shoe level and that is solely down to Labour and no one else as UncleBFester wrote.
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