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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 17 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
MCN wrote:


Education in modern ways and not supporting religions. Any fucking religion. Stamp out it's witchcraft and psycho-babble shite.


And science gave us nuclear weapons, so get rid of all that shite.
To blame religion is silly. You could eradicate it completely and still you'd have mass murdering lunatics. People are the problem. We have to get rid of people Thumbs Up


Science has benefits, religion doesn't. Religion has been the cause of many, if not most wars and massacres, with Islam being the worst offender in modern times by a long way. People will point out that the Church of England is totally non-violent and mostly socially positive, but it has also rewritten (by ignoring) much of the Bible to make this happen.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 17 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


And science gave us nuclear weapons, so get rid of all that shite.
To blame religion is silly. You could eradicate it completely and still you'd have mass murdering lunatics. People are the problem. We have to get rid of people Thumbs Up


Science has benefits, religion doesn't. Religion has been the cause of many, if not most wars and massacres, with Islam being the worst offender in modern times by a long way. People will point out that the Church of England is totally non-violent and mostly socially positive, but it has also rewritten (by ignoring) much of the Bible to make this happen.


Well, the Soviet Union and China got rid of religion. Didn't stop the massacre of millions, did it?
The Catholic church was actually a big part of what brought the Soviet Union down, with the backing for the trade unionist movement in Poland and the visits of the pope. The communists in both Poland and Russia did not know how to handle it, since the Polish people gave greater allegiance to the Catholic Church than they did to the communist system, and in the end it was a part of what eroded that system's legitimacy.

It isn't religion per se that causes problems, but the ways in which people interpret it, and the power it has often had within state systems, but I would rather live under a system that takes its morals from English Protestantism than communism, which has no morals.

Religion has been a huge part of where we are now in the West - well, up until the manifestation of these ridiculous ideas of identity politics, culture wars etc. These are the people that most need some kind of guiding principles to hold onto. Where is it going to come from? Science? Sorry, but science has no morals either. Science just is. Humans cannot live by science alone. It tells us what is, but does nothing to tell us how to live.

There are many things that, when taken to extremes, can cause massive problems for societies. The wisdom is in how to moderate them. Once you start generalising and talking about total eradication of huge parts of a culture, you're likely going to make things far worse in the long run, unless you have something pretty damn good to replace it. Liberalism? Not doing much for us right now, is it?

I don't follow any religion, nor am I inclined to. But I know where my morals originated, and it wasn't in science or politics.
I also don't have a problem with the modification of religions to suit new times, something that has always happened throughout history, as long as it is done thoughtfully so that it doesn't radically disrupt the societies among which it exists. It should be just one more part of a culture available for those who find use for it, and there is no doubt that many do, in perfectly peaceful fashion. Although religion is not something I practice, I would not take it away from such people that do.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Given that a Taliban spokesman has pledged a more moderate and inclusive approach (scepticism aside), maybe there’s hope that the worst elements of the old Taliban defected to ISIS and were subsequently decimated. Maybe they’ve changed in 20 years? Sounds unlikely, but I can’t otherwise understand why the superior Afghan army chose not to fight. Why choose a terrifying culture over a modestly unpopular but democratically elected (disputed) government.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
but I can’t otherwise understand why the superior Afghan army chose not to fight.


Its not a real army. Paper at best.

Quote:
First, there was widespread corruption in Afghanistan’s defence and interior ministries where funds, ammunition and food deliveries were stolen before reaching the soldiers on the ground. The ammunition and other equipment were sold on the black market, eventually ending up in the Taliban’s hands.

Furthermore, some commanders embezzled money by submitting fund requests for the salaries of “ghost soldiers” – i.e. soldiers who had not actually signed up for the military. As this was happening, ANDSF personnel were kept unpaid and retained on duty without permission to leave and see their families for months.

Unsurprisingly, the ANDSF had one of the highest desertion and casualty rates in the world. According to one estimate, the ANDSF’s per month attrition rate was 5,000 while the recruitment rate was 300 to 500.

Second, the embezzlement and corruption undermined morale within the ranks of the army. The integrity of senior leadership is pivotal in military affairs to win the troops’ respect and loyalty. For unpaid soldiers, the lavish lifestyles of their commanders were often too much to swallow. Hence, instead of fighting and dying, they preferred to save their lives by surrendering to the Taliban under its amnesty offers.

Third, there was also no ideological cohesion within the army or a sense of national duty and belonging. In fact, there was significant mistrust towards the country’s political leadership. No Afghan soldier was ready to fight and die to defend President Ashraf Ghani or the government. Conspiracy theories about a secret deal between the Afghan government and the Taliban were rife among Afghan troops. This environment of doubt and suspicion further undermined Afghan soldiers’ resolve to resist the advance of the ideologically cohesive Taliban, whose fighters were driven by a desire to establish an Islamic emirate and drive out foreign troops they saw as occupiers.

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Given that a Taliban spokesman has pledged a more moderate and inclusive approach (scepticism aside), maybe there’s hope that the worst elements of the old Taliban defected to ISIS and were subsequently decimated. Maybe they’ve changed in 20 years? Sounds unlikely, but I can’t otherwise understand why the superior Afghan army chose not to fight. Why choose a terrifying culture over a modestly unpopular but democratically elected (disputed) government.


They're a medieval deeply misogynistic religious cult, their whole existance relies on being anti-progressive.

Why not fight? The country had one of the most corrupt governments in the world. Not only at the top but all the way down to the lowest municipal level. The only command and control institutions the Afghan army had confidence in were NATO ones. Add to this the fact the Afghan armys personel will be all male and the culture is deeply socially conservative anyway the Taliban wont seem to present that big a change. I don't think its that difficult to understand. What's really shameful is successive governments of NATO involved forces have allowed the US to persue their usual tactic of installing a corrupt government for its own short term gains. Suitcases full of cash to any local dodger who you need to pay off so you can build an airstrip or some bogs for your soldiers is not how you build a genuinely stable administration.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:30 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Tdibs wrote:


Its not a real army. Paper at best.


I think now its been absorbed into the Taliban we will find its a very well equipped very well ordered force. The Taliban has now managed enormous force magnification, that is if the warlord elements haven't managed to get hold of a lot of the kit and personal of course. If the warlords have then there could be civil war, which likely CIA spooks will be (should be?) busy trying to be stir up.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, Northern Alliance has formed up again, so there will likely be some civil war for a while or reaching a status quo.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Theres a big element of India V Pakistan in Afghanistan. Pakistan views Afghanistan as a bolt hole backstop kind of territory and the price for that an is supporting the Taliban and Afghan Jihadis in general. Check this extract from an intelligence briefing to Hilarious Clinton.

The Pakistani military top brass were long convinced that they could control the militants they have nurtured. In a taped
conversation between President Pervez Musharraf and Muhammad Aziz Khan, his chief of general staff, that India
released in 1999, Aziz said the army had the jihadis by their "tooti" (balls). Yet the Islamists have increasingly followed
their own agendas, sending suicide bombers out against not just Pakistan's religious minorities and political leaders, but
even the IS! headquarters. Nonetheless, many in the army still believe the jihadis are a more practical defence against
Indian hegemony than nuclear weapons. For them, supporting Islamist groups is not an ideological or religious whim, so much as a practical and patriotic imperative - a vital survival strategy for a Pakistani state.
The army and ISI continued this duplicitous and risky policy after 11 September 2001 despite Musharrafs public
promises to the contrary. The speed with which the US lost interest in Afghanistan after its invasion and embarked on
plans to invade Iraq convinced the Pakistani army that the Washington had no long-term commitment to Karzai's
regime. This led to the generals keeping the Taliban in reserve, to be used to reinstal a pro-Pakistani regime in Kabul
once the American gaze had turned elsewhere.
So it was that the .ISI gave refuge to the leadership of the Taliban after it fled from Afghanistan in 2001.
Mullah

Mohammed Omar was kept in an IS! safehouse in Quetta; his militia was lodged in the sprawling suburb of
Pashtunabad. There, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar presided over the Taliban military committee and war chest.
Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the leader of Hizb-e-lslami, was lured back from exile in Iran and allowed to operate freely
outside Peshawar, while Jalaluddin Haqqani, one of the most violent Taliban commanders, was given sanctuary in North
Waziristan. Other groups were despatched to safehouses in Balochistan.
By 2004, the US had filmed Pakistani army trucks delivering Taliban fighters at the Afghan border and recovering them

a few days later; wireless monitoring at the US base at Bagram picked up Taliban commanders arranging with Pakistani
army officers at the border for safe passage as they came in and out of Afghanistan. Western intelligence agencies
concluded that the ISI was running a full training programme for the Afghan Taliban, turning a blind eye as they raised
funds in the Gulf and allowing them to import materiel, mainly via Dubai. By 2005 the Taliban, with covert Pakistani
support, were launching a full-scale assault on Nato troops in Afghanistan and being given covering fire as they returned to their bases in Pakistan.
At the same time, Taliban attacks on Indian interests in Afghanistan intensified, beginning the process of turning the Afghan conflict, like that in Kashmir, into what it is today: an lndo-Pak proxy war.

Full copy here https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/2000

Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar is one of the dudes trotting jauntily back onto the scene from Qatar on the news today.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
It seems Pakistan is second only to Iran for Western hate.

The CNN coverage was funny, pretty much "...they're screaming 'Death to America' but they seem quite jolly!" so that's alright then Rolling Eyes
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:25 - 18 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Taliban hasn't got anything particularly high end here just MRAPs (armoured vehicles) and some helicopters. Most of the air force (which was never high end) fled the country or destroyed the equipment.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:05 - 19 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The Taliban hasn't got anything particularly high end here just MRAPs (armoured vehicles) and some helicopters. Most of the air force (which was never high end) fled the country or destroyed the equipment.


You don't need high end stuff when you have an unlimited supply of nutters who are willing to strap on a suicide vest and invest in a future of virgins and luxury. Rolling Eyes

Don't think it doesn't affect the morale of even the highest trained armies when you are up against this. In WW2 the Americans fighting the Japanese said the kamikaze were the things they hated most because even though they weren't particularly effective once they started their dive there was bugger all you could do to stop them, just pray they missed.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 19 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Looks a complete mess over there, some interesting footage on this YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJkNTLncmWI
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rpsmith79
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PostPosted: 15:18 - 19 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Looks a complete mess over there, some interesting footage on this YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJkNTLncmWI


Looks like a scene from the Walking Dead Shocked
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 19 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
MCN wrote:


Education in modern ways and not supporting religions. Any fucking religion. Stamp out it's witchcraft and psycho-babble shite.


And science gave us nuclear weapons, so get rid of all that shite.
To blame religion is silly. You could eradicate it completely and still you'd have mass murdering lunatics. People are the problem. We have to get rid of people Thumbs Up


The destructive power and ease of manufacturing A-bomb was thoroughly debated by several great minds of the time. Not politicians. Theoretical High-End Thinkers. The same folk had seen the carnage mechanised and chemical war had wrecked.
The a-bomb was planned to stop world war and help to curb spats from escalation.
To a large extent the A-bomb has served this purpose well. The capabilities of nuclear armed nations is overwhelming yet no fuker has pushed the button.
Our dilemma now is the states who see no purpose to exist in this earth dimension and dream to meet their maker in the forever after life.
Our job is to keep a firm foot on the heads of those kunts lest they get a breath of air.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 19 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:

Our dilemma now is the states who see no purpose to exist in this earth dimension and dream to meet their maker in the forever after life.
Our job is to keep a firm foot on the heads of those kunts lest they get a breath of air.


So what you really mean is that we should keep religious extremism in check, not simply stamp out all religion? If so, I'm with you on that.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 09:46 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I found this really quite good timeline for Afghanistan since 1999. https://www.cfr.org/timeline/us-war-afghanistan
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:

The destructive power and ease of manufacturing A-bomb was thoroughly debated by several great minds of the time. Not politicians. Theoretical High-End Thinkers. The same folk had seen the carnage mechanised and chemical war had wrecked.
The a-bomb was planned to stop world war and help to curb spats from escalation.
To a large extent the A-bomb has served this purpose well. The capabilities of nuclear armed nations is overwhelming yet no fuker has pushed the button.
Our dilemma now is the states who see no purpose to exist in this earth dimension and dream to meet their maker in the forever after life.
Our job is to keep a firm foot on the heads of those kunts lest they get a breath of air.


Precision bombing has also made mass carpet bombing obsolete. These days you can deliver a cruise missile to a leader's front door, and even freefall bombs can be delivered within a metre or two of their target.

The transition from US superpower to China superpower isn't going to be a peaceful one. Maybe we just got lucky last time?
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 12:32 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
These days you can deliver a cruise missile to a leader's front door


Trouble is, those leaders are usually at weddings...
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:09 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
Quote:
These days you can deliver a cruise missile to a leader's front door


Trouble is, those leaders are usually at weddings...


Two birds, one stone...

And the phrase "collateral damage" is nice and succinct Smile
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really do not understand why we put ourselves in a position to be the scapegoats all the time.

Sheffield hotel fall: Boy who died was Afghan refugee.

Now don't get me wrong, it's very sad but we gave refuge to this family. Put them up in a hotel and now are saying that this hotel wasn't suitable accommodation.

Is it not just a little feasible to expect the mother to take responsibility for looking after her kids rather than immediately decide that it's the accommodation being unsuitable and we must rehouse the refugees?

"We don't know the details of the incident but it is imperative that families who come from Afghanistan are given all the support they need and housed in appropriate accommodation. They are vulnerable and often very traumatised."

If you don't know the details, then wait until you do rather than just blaming the accommodation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-58269533
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
If you don't know the details, then wait until you do rather than just blaming the accommodation.


I totally agree with this.

Blaming something outright is always wrong without proving it was the cause.

Has happened several times in my business career that something has failed on site and our product was instantly blamed. When I asked the guy on site why he was blaming our product he got butthurt and defensive and I was like well, with respect mate I am not asking you anything that a Sheriff wouldn't if there was a Claim.

Random anecdote aside, I hate people jumping to conclusions, especially in a case like this where the hotel's reputation is unnecessarily tarnished.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Can anyone give me a good reason why we take in refugees in general - beyond the nebulous "it's the right thing to do." As in why prioritise refugees over economically viable (and more importantly documented) migrants or indigenous ppls?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Can anyone give me a good reason why we take in refugees in general - beyond the nebulous "it's the right thing to do." As in why prioritise refugees over economically viable (and more importantly documented) migrants or indigenous ppls?

White guilt, innit. Even when we go in to help it either turns into an unwelcome occupation or it goes back to tribalism when the job had seemed to be done.

It might be Western media filtering the info, but I don’t see the Arab states taking many in.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 15:45 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Can anyone give me a good reason why we take in refugees in general - beyond the nebulous "it's the right thing to do." As in why prioritise refugees over economically viable (and more importantly documented) migrants or indigenous ppls?


White people don't have enough children and they have to find a way to pay off the pensions pot. Population replacement basically. You know its the right answer because you aren't allowed to say it Wink

Freedom of speech: The right to say things of no significance. It's only when you start talking about the truth that you get into trouble.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
White people don't have enough children and they have to find a way to pay off the pensions pot. Population replacement basically. You know its the right answer because you aren't allowed to say it Wink

Freedom of speech: The right to say things of no significance. It's only when you start talking about the truth that you get into trouble.


No, if it were that simple you could just have more legal migrants or increase Child Benefits.

The only value I can see in importing paedophiles terrorists undocumented migrants is to actively destroy the country and cover it up with MSM propaganda Thinking
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 252 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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