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Diggs
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Is it not just a little feasible to expect the mother to take responsibility for looking after her kids


Easy now tiger - that sort of talk will put us back 100 years...
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 20 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Can anyone give me a good reason why we take in refugees in general - beyond the nebulous "it's the right thing to do." As in why prioritise refugees over economically viable (and more importantly documented) migrants or indigenous ppls?


One of those questions that's probably grounds for a good social history degree thesis. I think you have to consider traditional ideas of asylum and possibly cultures of hospitality to strangers that could be quite ancient. I certainly think these things have more to do with providing aid to refugees than any conspiracy theories around the powerful elite seeking cheap labour for their businesses. Consider the term "refugee", the seeker of refuge, a very particular presentation compared with simply being a migrant.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 01:10 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well back in the day it'd be things like giving refuge to French aristocrats trying to avoid a beheading... oh, I see - things haven't changed that much. Anyhoo, the theme of sheltering bothersome people - mostly disagreeable intellectuals but having money would do at a pinch - is a long held European tradition.

A modern day example would be Malala Yousafzai: shot in the head for wanting an education but the executioners were so inept she survived. No worries, my dear, come to the UK for your GCSEs Thumbs Up Helping someone out plus sticking two fingers up at the opposition is what it's all about.

There's nothing noble about helping criminals out of rubber dinghies.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huguenots were hardly nobles. They were interesting if n that they were fleeing sectarian religious oppression and I suspect a lot of the Afghans legging it now will be Shia.

I dont go for the whole fugees are criminals and terrorists either. There is a risk of terrorism but its more likely from the children of immigrants. being children and unable to rationalize and protect themselves from the negative experiences of growing up as outsiders provide fertile ground for tech savvy global terrorism to develop an attacker. Look at most of the attacks on British soil by jihadis, its been almost all second generation and converts.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:38 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Huguenots were hardly nobles. They were interesting if n that they were fleeing sectarian religious oppression and I suspect a lot of the Afghans legging it now will be Shia.

I dont go for the whole fugees are criminals and terrorists either. There is a risk of terrorism but its more likely from the children of immigrants. being children and unable to rationalize and protect themselves from the negative experiences of growing up as outsiders provide fertile ground for tech savvy global terrorism to develop an attacker. Look at most of the attacks on British soil by jihadis, its been almost all second generation and converts.


Of course it's all overstated - by both sides, naturally Rolling Eyes I just look at it from a long-term economic benefit. If I had a choice between someone documented - a known quantity - and someone who'd ceremonially burnt their papers on a French beach before making an illegal crossing... it's not hard stuff ffs. It's obvious that someone is advising them how to game the system Sad
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Huguenots were hardly nobles. They were interesting if n that they were fleeing sectarian religious oppression and I suspect a lot of the Afghans legging it now will be Shia.

I dont go for the whole fugees are criminals and terrorists either. There is a risk of terrorism but its more likely from the children of immigrants. being children and unable to rationalize and protect themselves from the negative experiences of growing up as outsiders provide fertile ground for tech savvy global terrorism to develop an attacker. Look at most of the attacks on British soil by jihadis, its been almost all second generation and converts.


Of course it's all overstated - by both sides, naturally Rolling Eyes I just look at it from a long-term economic benefit. If I had a choice between someone documented - a known quantity - and someone who'd ceremonially burnt their papers on a French beach before making an illegal crossing... it's not hard stuff ffs. It's obvious that someone is advising them how to game the system Sad


I get that but those "gaming the system" at that level even if their numbers are many have less effect than the few at the top of the system who it appears have just as much "game". Why do you think nobody in our government is openly calling out the US on its utter incompetence in anything other than dropping bombs?,and even then they f#ck that up on a regular basis.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHTL7Zj7MZA

This kind of thing is why I said earlier I don't know what would have been the best thing to do in Afghanistan. I still don't. I just know that it could easily have been handled much better. But even that's easy to say from the safety of my own living room in England as an ill-informed spectator to what little the public is told and shown.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

But we could just nuke the place Smile
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
I get that but those "gaming the system" at that level even if their numbers are many have less effect than the few at the top of the system who it appears have just as much "game". Why do you think nobody in our government is openly calling out the US on its utter incompetence in anything other than dropping bombs?,and even then they f#ck that up on a regular basis.


This is what I keep explaining to my mum: thousands coming over on boats is pretty bad but check out the US-Mexico border Shocked As far as I can tell though The Man On The Clapham Omnibus™ would be happy to tell all refugees to fuck off including my previous example of Yousafzai Sad I put this down to the repetition of "you're a racist!" which is wearing a bit thin now.

How's the old joke go? British coming over the hill, the Taliban start running. Americans coming over the hill, everyone starts running Smile
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arry
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_CJcSWNrsY

What a shower.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Well worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHTL7Zj7MZA

This kind of thing is why I said earlier I don't know what would have been the best thing to do in Afghanistan. I still don't. I just know that it could easily have been handled much better. But even that's easy to say from the safety of my own living room in England as an ill-informed spectator to what little the public is told and shown.


Blame Mr Hemper our man with the plan.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_of_Mr._Hempher,_The_British_Spy_to_the_Middle_East
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


As far as I can tell though The Man On The Clapham Omnibus™ would be happy to tell all refugees to fuck off


Maybe he should convert to Islam then develop an even more extreme version of it then go over to the 'stan and really put the wind up the Tallys Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
I suspect a lot of the Afghans legging it now will be Shia.


You'd think they'd head for Iran.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:31 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:


Tbh, I think blaming people is a bit late by this stage Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Easy-X wrote:


As far as I can tell though The Man On The Clapham Omnibus™ would be happy to tell all refugees to fuck off


Maybe he should convert to Islam then develop an even more extreme version of it then go over to the 'stan and really put the wind up the Tallys Laughing


It seems ISIS doesn't think the Taliban will be fundamentalist enough.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Easy-X wrote:


As far as I can tell though The Man On The Clapham Omnibus™ would be happy to tell all refugees to fuck off


Maybe he should convert to Islam then develop an even more extreme version of it then go over to the 'stan and really put the wind up the Tallys Laughing


Well more that lying to people usually gets the reverse of what you want.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 21 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Ribenapigeon wrote:
I suspect a lot of the Afghans legging it now will be Shia.


You'd think they'd head for Iran.


First moves the Taliban made was taking control of the border with Iran.
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Kris
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PostPosted: 13:43 - 22 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

MP that walked across Afghanistan reacts to fall of Kabul | Rory Stewart interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igu0Gvz1i2I
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:06 - 22 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kris wrote:
MP that walked across Afghanistan reacts to fall of Kabul | Rory Stewart interview

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Igu0Gvz1i2I


Another politician I really can't stand. Come to think of it, is there one I do like? Thinking

What is the difference between smarmy self righteous gits and politicians.

Nothing.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 25 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


What is the difference between smarmy self righteous gits and politicians.

Nothing.


We probably don't get exposed to politicians that genuinely try to work for the public good. There's too cosy a relationship between the psycopaths in the media and the psychopaths in politics.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 26 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience the only politicians that genuinely want to serve their electorate are local councillors - but a vanishingly small number even then.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 00:32 - 26 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
In my experience the only politicians that genuinely want to serve their electorate are local councillors - but a vanishingly small number even then.


A lot if councilors ive known are using the position to get on the party elevator to candidate selection for parliament. They're the absolute worst at actually doing anything.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 10:34 - 26 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
In my experience the only politicians that genuinely want to serve their electorate are local councillors - but a vanishingly small number even then.


A lot if councilors ive known are using the position to get on the party elevator to candidate selection for parliament. They're the absolute worst at actually doing anything.


I pretty much thought that as I hit submit Sad But I have a local councillor in my area actually kicking butt and taking names, against the propaganda efforts of the Residents Association. And Mebyon Kernow have been surprisingly helpful - for nationalists - according to my mum.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:03 - 26 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


I pretty much thought that as I hit submit Sad But I have a local councillor in my area actually kicking butt and taking names, against the propaganda efforts of the Residents Association. And Mebyon Kernow have been surprisingly helpful - for nationalists - according to my mum.


When not in a position of power they're more active at grass roots level but as soon as the host party is on top the energy drops. Up here in Scottisikstan the local Cooncilors steer clear of any real action as they would find themselves pitted against their own party the SNP and the mess its created.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:29 - 26 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exception to the rule then: our area's top boy is a Conservative!
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The last post was made 2 years, 246 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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