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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:31 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Interesting article from March this year says these events were entirely predictable......


March this year? You can go back a lot earlier than this to find concerns that Afghanistans a disaster area.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_the_Silence:_Truth_and_Lies_in_the_War_on_Terror

Pilger alleges that President Jimmy Carter authorised a five-hundred million dollar programme to help set up the native Afghan mujahideen, starting as early as six months prior to the Soviet invasion into Afghanistan

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WGIUKLPMc3k
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
RhynoCZ wrote:
They played us like a damn fiddle. Thinking


They being? I would say not the Afghans but in reality the 'Muricans. Its high time we stopped indulging the spoilt obese bastard child of old Europe and told it to grow up get a job and look after itself.


It was a quote from the ''Metal Gear Solid 5: The Phantom Pain'' game, that takes place in Afghanistan.

Anyway, it is quite without a doubt that 'merican activities in the middle east lead to birth of many terrorist groups and civil wars. Everything started in the 30's when US of A got hungry for oil. IIRC 'mericans had a local contractor named Mohamed Bin Laden who built all the infrastructure for them, and also got filthy rich doing so. By the way, one of his kids, Osama, didn't feel good about his family supporting 'mericans and definitely not about his own country (kingdom?) supporting 'mericans, so he used the family money to do what? To fight the invaders, mainly US of A and USSR in Afghanistan (Do you remember that Rambo film?). For whatever reason, he fought back USSR in Afghanistan, or let's say USSR gave up after 10 years or so. He also could indoctrinate many people as he fought in Afghanistan agains the USSR, and he was filthy rich, family money, aaaand since it was the Cold War, US of A supported Osama with money and weapons to fight back the USSR. When Osama won in Afghanistan, he went back home to indoctrinate even more people now to fight against the US of A and other invaders (Israel?). It was at that moment Al Qaeda was born. Not everyone in the middle east was happy with that though, Saudi Arabia and other countries were getting wealthier and wealthier from selling oil to the world and their main customer being US of A. Hussein invading Kuwait also lead to more military presence of US of A and Osama got even more pissed, ... long story short, 9/11.

That being said, 'mericans had/have allies (NATO) and they do help each other in all sorts of ways. The very first time I've heard about NATO was the democractic bombing of Kosovo (that's how they talked about this in Czech rep. at that time). Thinking

EDIT: Google works fast and youtube algorithm suggested I should see this video, that sums up what I've written above about the middle east: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnOdULpV810 Thumbs Up
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Last edited by RhynoCZ on 19:31 - 13 Aug 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Interesting article from March this year says these events were entirely predictable......


March this year? You can go back a lot earlier than this to find concerns that Afghanistans a disaster area.

Yeah, but I was referring specifically to this ‘negotiated withdrawal’ and the Afghan response.

Oh, and apparently it’s Trump’s fault.
Laughing Pass the popcorn
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:



Yeah, but I was referring specifically to this ‘negotiated withdrawal’ and the Afghan response.

Oh, and apparently it’s Trump’s fault.
Laughing Pass the popcorn


I hope Donald at least gave the Taliban a signed copy of his book, The art of the deal.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Diggs wrote:
Quote:
The real problem is Islam


In this case it is one of the driving forces. I rather suspect it has more to do with a bunch of blokes using 'religion' as their excuse to wield power, collect money, shag kids etc. Hold on, I could be describing the Catholic church 500 years ago there Confused

Remember that it is possible to have a religion and not wield an AK...


Yes, 500 years ago. Not the 21st century. Whatever you believe about RC, CofE etc, and I'm no supporter, they have at least migrated themselves relatively up to date with morals and equality. As you have just stated, Islam is still mired in the dark ages,in even the most enlightened Islamic countries.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Interfering in Afghanistan has always failed. Always.

The only way it will change is if they decide they want it to change.

I was however impressed when one of the warlords went in with the government forces. If the Afghan people decide they no longer want the Taliban, the Taliban will go, even if it takes another 20 years of war by attrition. They need to decide that for themselves and decide if they actually want outside help to make it happen.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

, Islam is still mired in the dark ages,in even the most enlightened Islamic countries.


I wouldn't necessarily be disagree entirely but ive known a number of lebanese and they're remarkable in being very western and liberal in their outlook. Putting the economic disaster of lebanon aside its a very broad society with all the anrahamic religions living together quite peacfully.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Interfering in Afghanistan has always failed. ....


And there's the rub. The US and allies never went into Afghanistan to support its development as a state, we all know it was just vengeance and risk control after they got a pasting in the most devastating and successful terrorist attack in history. If there had been genuine support to develop Afghanistan as a modern state rather than just suitcases of cash being handed over to the gangster warlords in return for running bothing more than an ego trip for the US things might be different now.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 14:50 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Interfering in Afghanistan has always failed. ....


And there's the rub. The US and allies never went into Afghanistan to support its development as a state, we all know it was just vengeance and risk control after they got a pasting in the most devastating and successful terrorist attack in history. If there had been genuine support to develop Afghanistan as a modern state rather than just suitcases of cash being handed over to the gangster warlords in return for running bothing more than an ego trip for the US things might be different now.


You mean if we had colonised them properly. Set up a government that enforced laws and civilised behaviour, good idea! I'm sure we would be admired and exalted by our present left wing hand wringers for doing colonial things Rolling Eyes
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
British colonialism was always the best thing for the world.


Pass the popcorn
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
British colonialism was always the best thing for the world.


Pass the popcorn


Nobody's biting Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


You mean if we had colonised them properly. Set up a government that enforced laws and civilised behaviour, good idea! I'm sure we would be admired and exalted by our present left wing hand wringers for doing colonial things Rolling Eyes


No, that's never happened, running a colony is not the same as building an independent democratic state. It might not even be a thing, possible to do, just a fantasy that such a thjng can be artificially created. Who knows anyway, I'll bet its a common subject to theorise about in political philosophy depts.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
British colonialism was always the best thing for the world.


Pass the popcorn


Nobody's biting Laughing


That's cos they know it's true.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:55 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


That's cos they know it's true.


Still not biting Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:56 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


You mean if we had colonised them properly. Set up a government that enforced laws and civilised behaviour, good idea! I'm sure we would be admired and exalted by our present left wing hand wringers for doing colonial things Rolling Eyes


No, that's never happened, running a colony is not the same as building an independent democratic state.


But democracy is what India went with after we left, so they must have liked something about it.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:59 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yanks have a tanker up over southern Afghanistan SHELL26 https://fr24.com/SHELL26/28cbacc4

And a Navy Hercules heading in around Kandahar
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 15 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:


But democracy is what India went with after we left, so they must have liked something about it.


Give it up im still not taking the bait.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 01:35 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


But democracy is what India went with after we left, so they must have liked something about it.


Give it up im still not taking the bait.


You overestimate your importance Sir.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 03:28 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://i.redd.it/fm8cg50xhih71.jpg

Forever war temporarily suspended. Pending new investments.

They made a fair effort to make syria the new forever war, lets see whats next.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
That helicopters doing well, 46 years old!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
That helicopters doing well, 46 years old!


This and the Hercules still going. Sometimes a design is just "chef's kiss" as the kids say these days.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:


This and the Hercules still going. Sometimes a design is just "chef's kiss" as the kids say these days.


Or possibly throwing good money after bad in a bone-headed attempt to make a sub-standard platform perform as it was intended? I don't think chinooks were ever good but they'd spent so much money on them that they've lingered on long past when they should have been scrapped. Like people who own landrovers.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:28 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I don't know that transport and heavy lift helicopters will ever be particularly survivable in a combat zone. Doesn't mean they're no good or have no use.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
I don't know that transport and heavy lift helicopters will ever be particularly survivable in a combat zone. Doesn't mean they're no good or have no use.


Sure, but I think chinooks in particular have more than their share of issues.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 16 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
I don't know that transport and heavy lift helicopters will ever be particularly survivable in a combat zone. Doesn't mean they're no good or have no use.


Sure, but I think chinooks in particular have more than their share of issues.


Such as?
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 256 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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