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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
So when someone comes in and starts talking about electric guitars, Pink Floyd or Mozart, I will say, it's all an outdated irrelevance now, and doesn't do any good.


Outside of the topic subject, this tells me you don't understand the concept of creativity in humans. You can't just stop the creative process in someone who has it. It's a part of what makes us human. You're talking about trying to get away from being human. That's anathema to me. I think it's because we spend too much time concentrating on what is bad in us, and ignore what is good - and there IS good.

Tech. and science are tools, very useful ones at best, dangerous and destructive at worst. But to think they can replace everything ignores what we are, pretend we're above it as much as we like.
An appreciation of beauty is not something one can switch off. Take a trip through mountain scenery in a certain light, and your breath is taken away for a moment, you can't help it. If you're sane, you wouldn't want to try to prevent it.

I do think you make some interesting points, but you're describing a world I wouldn't want to live in. I think if it's the direction fresh generations take, they're in for a world of pain and confusion as they try to deny what they are.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:55 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:

I'm talking about people who work at GCHQ. DV is different, and people at GCHQ don't even really "DV" in the same sense because the intelligence services do their own internal vetting equivalent to DV, whereas DV is done by the Defence Vetting Agency. Normal security cleared workers (SC, DV etc) are quite different to spooks. They're just doing normal jobs but did a long background check before starting said job, or in DV case also did a interview where they got asked about sex, porn and drugs. The whole thing is very civil service, lots of security theatre and box ticking, not so much counterespionage effectiveness.



DV or developed vetting is a comprehensive vetting process used for ANY high security position in the UK. The vast majority of intelligence staff at GCHQ will be cleared to this level. Even administrative staff may well be too - if not then they'll be SC/eSC cleared at a minimum.

BPSS -> CTC -> SC -> eSC -> DV -> eDV

The last is a part of DV.

Those are the UK security clearance levels.

All have to pass BPSS before passing higher levels.


Yes... but that took an entire paragraph to write didn't it? And mine took two words. That's also not how it works. First of all BPSS and CTC are not security clearances, BPSS is just a background check. There are only really two levels, SC and DV. eSC is just SC with the interview element of DV. eDV is a DV with deeper checks info the background info/referees. Again, GCHQ does not use the DVA anyway, it does it internally.

Not that this is at all relevant to the thread.

Bhud wrote:


What I mean is, all information. There is so much technology that we simply aren't using, and which hold a lot of predictive potential, for want of information.

Let's take GCHQ, for instance. We suppose that they're tasked with intercepting communications and other activities related to the prevention of terrorism (and not for their own interests or on behalf of corporate or political elites lol). There's lots of information on the internet. Someone types a dodgy search entry into Google. Their algorithm picks it up and assigns it a variable, and connects it with that person's digital ID. Then they go to a garden centre, where (potentially) hazardous materials are available. The variable increments. They don't buy anything dodgy. The variable decrements. They meet with Bob, a person who has associations with a proscribed organisation. The variable increments. They then go offline for a while. Variable increments. They book a flight to Syria. Variable increments and a human is alerted. So far, so good. We can all see the value in this. This is how they sell GCHQ to us.

But how about the other information that isn't even being collected, yet which might be collected and used to help us understand human behaviour and make useful predictions? That Airtag thing by Apple, for example. It automatically handshakes other Airtags and Apple phones and products in the vicinity. The use of low-energy radio networks - networked things - to track persons or objects irrespective of any internet activity. This can be extended to lots of other things.

Let's say, you search for recipes for lamb's neck. Then you get up, and you cycle to the post office. You go back home and order some painkillers, online. You search for physio exercises to help relieve lower back pain. All of these things you did of your own free will. If it's possible to use all of the RFID and 5G data we should be collecting, it's then possible to really advance to the next stage of our evolution. The transmitters in your bike tyres, in your shoes, in your watch, your coat, etc. could and should be used as a network.

Why do you have back pain? Is it because of your age, or because you exercise too much or too little or have too much red meat? Why does this matter? Well, let's say your DNA is sequenced, and researchers hypothesize that certain genes (two of them) cause back pain. They publish their paper in academic journals, their sample set is 30 people, their work is sound and is peer-reviewed, and gets uploaded to SNPedia. Then it becomes "science". But wait, that's just 30 people. Not possible to factor in other gene combos, geographic location, age, dietary or exercise habits, etc. This is where you can help - your information and your daily life will continuously build a really robust and useful picture of how the genes work.

That's just one example of why it's so important that we as a society don't hold back from collecting data, especially on the basis of any outdated ideals.

Or another one: tracking production and procurement processes in global logistics for ALL goods, step by step, using this IoT technology, so that fakes become a thing of the past, so that all stages of production and delivery are transparent and open, and so that quality control can be assured. This is something that can be done in new ways. Just suppose you need a replacement bike part from the other side of the world. If it's a safety-critical part, or an engine part, right now you've got a problem and you just don't know if the part will be any good when it reaches you. What if it's swapped out? What if it's fake? No accountability on anyone's part. This can be solved with IoT tracking.


Those are probably things Google can do but not GCHQ. GCHQ only have 6000 staff, and only around 4000 ish are tech related. Google has 140,000. They harvest a lot of data but I doubt they act on much of it, there is just too much. At a guess the internal GCHQ perspective is that they are already swamped with work and that they don't have resources to do wider public surveillance or or more in-depth monitoring, and the external view is that they monitor all of us all of the time with 1 GCHQ per 17,000 citizens.

I expect our resident pedants will inform me that it is not 4000 but exactly 3871 or something shortly Laughing

Bhud wrote:

For this to work, everything and everyone has to be involved. I am hopeful that one day augmentations and integrations will be the norm. Imagine typing out messages on BCF using just your brain, which has a chip with Wifi that connects to your phone. Just the tip of the iceberg... I just think the current way of doing things is played out. You've got to batter an animal until it doesn't rebel any more. Then you give it debt, and then you let it sniff around for money you just created out of nothing to pay its way, rinse and repeat, etc. The new social credits system we'll get is just another step on the path of becoming an intelligent singularity. That's my opinion.


That just incentivises people to do nothing. If houses cost £350,000, you have huge student loan debts of lets say £50k, rent £400/mo and salaries are £25K then "working harder" is pointless, you are far, FAR better off lying flat. This is why socialism is so popular with millennials/genz these days.
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Bhud
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Joined: 11 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I couldn't care less about GCHQ. They have zero importance to me. I was just using them as an example of the way in which data can be collected and used by AI to make predictions about human behaviour.
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
BPSS - basic identity check
CTC - for safeguarding purposes (children/vunerable people etc.)
SC - needed to access 'Secret' documentation
DV - anything above 'Secret'

It doesn't matter whether DVA do it or GCHQ. Same processes, same names.

(Couldn't possibly say how I know, but I have visited what became DVA in the past...)
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
I couldn't care less about GCHQ. They have zero importance to me. I was just using them as an example of the way in which data can be collected and used by AI to make predictions about human behaviour.


AI is just statistical inference though. As you increase the number of data points your model approximation converges with smaller errors to the real world. But at the same time the woke/left brigade want us to deny the data because data is racist/sexist/stereotyping Laughing The Lib Dems were forced to apologise for suggesting that pram access is important for mothers. Yes, it's true, Proxvir, Turbogender, Leukogender, Gendfleur and Jupitergendered people can push a pram too.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
BPSS - basic identity check
CTC - for safeguarding purposes (children/vunerable people etc.)
SC - needed to access 'Secret' documentation
DV - anything above 'Secret'

It doesn't matter whether DVA do it or GCHQ. Same processes, same names.

(Couldn't possibly say how I know, but I have visited what became DVA in the past...)


CTC is for people who work in airports and that kind of thing. Safeguarding is a bit different, that's a DBS check so they check for arrests etc related to sex offences and probably domestic violence and that kind of thing. No level of security clearance lets you work with children, you need a DBS. Don't you love bureacracy? Laughing

GCHQ has a separate internal process. It only offers DV equivalent. We are going to have agree to disagree here I think.

Whole system is a bit of a problem really. Younger people value their privacy far more than state secrecy, but at the same time the state needs ever more techy young people to join up (on top of replacing retiring boomers). I can see them having real recruitment difficulties considering the private/non-defence/non-intel sector will pay more and offer more privacy.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 15:33 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Islander wrote:

DV or developed vetting is a comprehensive vetting process used for ANY high security position in the UK. The vast majority of intelligence staff at GCHQ will be cleared to this level. Even administrative staff may well be too - if not then they'll be SC/eSC cleared at a minimum.

BPSS -> CTC -> SC -> eSC -> DV -> eDV

The last is a part of DV.

Those are the UK security clearance levels.

All have to pass BPSS before passing higher levels.


Yes... but that took an entire paragraph to write didn't it? And mine took two words. That's also not how it works. First of all BPSS and CTC are not security clearances, BPSS is just a background check. There are only really two levels, SC and DV. eSC is just SC with the interview element of DV. eDV is a DV with deeper checks info the background info/referees. Again, GCHQ does not use the DVA anyway, it does it internally.

Not that this is at all relevant to the thread.



BPSS = Baseline Personnel Security Standard. Needed for:

Access to UK OFFICIAL assets and occasional access to UK SECRET assets.
Working in areas where SECRET and TOP SECRET information may be overheard.
Access to Public Services Network (PSN).

i.e. a basic security check.

CTC = Counter Terrorist Check. Needed for posts which:

Involve proximity to public figures assessed to be at particular risk from terrorist attack
give access to information or material assessed to be of value to terrorists
involve unescorted access to certain military, civil, industrial or commercial establishments assessed to be at particular risk from terrorist attack.

Checks involve:

successful completion of the Baseline Personnel Security Standard
completion, by the individual, of a Security Questionnaire
a departmental/company records check which might include, for example personal files, staff reports, sick leave returns and security records
a check of both spent and unspent criminal records
a check of Security Service (MI5) records
if there are any unresolved security concerns about the individual or if recommended by the Security Service, the individual may also be interviewed.

i.e. a security check

Security Check (SC)

Used for Individuals who are to be employed in posts which:

require them to have long-term, frequent and uncontrolled access to SECRET assets and/or occasional, supervised access to TOP SECRET assets
And for individuals who:

while not in such posts, will be in a position to directly or indirectly bring about the same degree of damage
will have sufficient knowledge to obtain a comprehensive picture of a SECRET plan, policy or project
are being considered for employment where it would not be possible to make reasonable career progress without security clearance for access to SECRET assets
require access to certain levels of classified material originating from another country or international organisation.

Checks involve:

successful completion of the Baseline Personnel Security Standard
completion, by the individual, of a security questionnaire
a departmental/company records check which will include, for example personal files, staff reports, sick leave returns and security records
a check of both spent and unspent criminal records
a check of credit and financial history with a credit reference agency
a check of Security Service (MI5) records
exceptionally, if there are any unresolved security concerns about the individual, or if recommended by the Security Service, the individual may also be interviewed
in the event of any unresolved financial concerns, the individual may also be required to complete a separate financial questionnaire so that a full review of personal finances can be carried out
checks may extend to third parties included on the security questionnaire.

eSC required for

An Enhanced Security Check allows regular uncontrolled access up to SECRET assets and occasional, controlled access to TOP SECRET assets. It is used for specific roles where an additional level of assurance is required over SC, but not to DV level.

Available only to those in specific roles, including the holders of:

posts in which there is a requirement to access SECRET code word material
posts that have been designated as requiring eSC because of the level of access they confer to certain specified information systems
certain overseas posts that have been assessed as exposing the holder to a significant espionage threat and/or have a lower than average level of management oversight.

Checks involve:

successful completion of the Baseline Personnel Security Standard
completion, by the individual, of a Security Questionnaire, Financial Questionnaire and Internet Questionnaire
a departmental/company records check which will include, for example personal files, staff reports, sick leave returns and security records
a check of both spent and unspent criminal records
a check of credit and financial history with a credit reference agency
check of Security Service (MI5) records
a detailed interview conducted by a trained Investigating Officer
checks may extend to third parties included on the security questionnaire
the full review of personal finances will include an assessment of an individual’s assets, liabilities, income and expenditure both on an individual basis and taking into account the joint position with a spouse or partner.

So more than "an interview"

DV

Required for Individuals who are to be employed in posts which:

require them to have frequent and uncontrolled access to TOP SECRET assets or require any access to TOP SECRET codeword material
And for individuals who:

while not in such posts, will be in a position to directly or indirectly bring about the same degree of damage.
require frequent and uncontrolled access to Category I nuclear material
require access to certain levels of classified material originating from another country or international organisation.

Checks involve:

successful completion of the Baseline Personnel Security Standard
completion, by the individual, of a DV security questionnaire
a departmental/company records check which will include personal files, staff reports, sick leave returns and security records
a check of both spent and unspent criminal records
a check of credit and financial history with a credit reference agency
a check of Security Service (MI5) records
a full review of personal finances
a detailed interview conducted by a trained Investigating Officer
further enquiries, including interviews with referees conducted by a trained Investigating Officer
checks may extend to third parties included on the security questionnaire
the full review of personal finances will include an assessment of an individual’s assets, liabilities, income and expenditure both on an individual basis and taking into account the joint position with a spouse or partner.

eDV

Required for a very small number of posts where an additional level of assurance is required above DV. It can only be requested by a small number of Sponsors and only with prior agreement with UKSV and the Cabinet Office.

Checks involve:

completion of a DV security questionnaire (including a family and travel element)
criminal Record check
Security Services check
credit reference check
financial investigation
applicant interview
supervisor interview
referee interview
checks may extend to third parties included on the security questionnaire
the full review of personal finances will include an assessment of an individual’s assets, liabilities, income and expenditure both on an individual basis and taking into account the joint position with a spouse or partner.

I've left out DV renewal.

These are national standards and all branches of government including the security services use them.

That includes GCHQ and NCSC as a branch of GCHQ.
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 15:53 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Dv interviews include your sexual proclivities. Imagine how long my interview is likely to last.
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Imagine how long my interview is likely to last.

Thinking

https://i.imgur.com/WjyRJqR.jpg
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Easy-X
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Joined: 08 Mar 2019
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PostPosted: 21:08 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Dv interviews include your sexual proclivities. Imagine how long my interview is likely to last.


Mostly it's "do you get up to anything that you wouldn't want made public?" as in blackmail opportunities. So actually it'd be a very short interview for you, Nobby Wink
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:15 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know its about blackmail opportunities. I do work in the area after all.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I must have touched a nerve - I got a 'Boring' for my post quoting the Government's own standard to put the record straight. Laughing
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Does it really put the record straight, though. Now, if you'd said that spooks are all a bunch of voyeuristic, neurotic curtain-twitchers and wankers, that might have set the record straight.

Not really a respectable profession, whichever way you look at it.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:23 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Does it really put the record straight, though. Now, if you'd said that spooks are all a bunch of voyeuristic, neurotic curtain-twitchers and wankers, that might have set the record straight.

Not really a respectable profession, whichever way you look at it.


It's an essential profession and they are professionals.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:32 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
It's an essential profession and they are professionals.


You're entitled to your point of view.

Every nation in the world has its armed forces and its intelligence agencies. I am not particularly interested in nation-states and their interests - only in my own set of values, which do not include anything dishonest or immoral or unethical for a "greater good" which I'm sure is actually a greater evil. I'm glad you're supporting them though, and I'm sure you're consistently patriotic in that regard, and a military veteran.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Islander wrote:
It's an essential profession and they are professionals.


You're entitled to your point of view.

Every nation in the world has its armed forces and its intelligence agencies. I am not particularly interested in nation-states and their interests - only in my own set of values, which do not include anything dishonest or immoral or unethical for a "greater good" which I'm sure is actually a greater evil. I'm glad you're supporting them though, and I'm sure you're consistently patriotic in that regard, and a military veteran.


I'm not particularly patriotic and I've never served in the military. My politics aren't right wing either so there goes your perceived stereotype. Laughing

I'm sorry but your ideals are naïve. Nation states and their interests are very much a part of our day to day existence and they aren't all friendly towards us.

We live in a world of threats and our intelligence services are an important part of protecting people from those threat. On the whole, they do a very good job. You might not like what they do but until the world achieves utopia, they're going to be a necessary service.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:45 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:

I'm not particularly patriotic and I've never served in the military. My politics aren't right wing either so there goes your perceived stereotype. Laughing

I'm sorry but your ideals are naïve. Nation states and their interests are very much a part of our day to day existence and they aren't all friendly towards us.

We live in a world of threats and our intelligence services are an important part of protecting people from those threat. On the whole, they do a very good job. You might not like what they do but until the world achieves utopia, they're going to be a necessary service.


What moves things in this world is the force of arms. This will change as humanity enters its next stage. There are many theories and ideas being floated around right now - this is a very exciting time. Most of these face a pretty fierce reaction. Klaus Schwab is an example: deeply unpopular globalist prick, but is he any worse than what the nation states have done? And his are not the only globalist ideas in town. There are many possible ways the future may pan out. We have been conditioned for so long to regard the status quo as being the only way anything could ever get done, that we disregard the facts before us. There were many kingdoms on this island before there was England, and finally the United Kingdom. And do we want these kingdoms back? Seriously, no we don't. Likewise, with these spy agencies. Superfluous, and currently harmful. The only thing that matters right now is force of arms, and the balance of power. All these spying activities are useless. I don't believe they protect people. Nobody protects people.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember one time in my life when I really, really needed a job. A job was not only a means to put a roof over my head, but it defined my identity, and my entire perception of self-worth. And I remember going through the entire recruitment process for GCHQ, and having an interview with them. I got through all the tests and everything. They actually paid for my train fare (upon my request) to Cheltenham. After a 7- or 8-page application form where I had to write essays (OK, slight bit of hyperbole but still about 300 words each) as answers about how I needed the "challenge", I was properly tuned into this. I walked from Cheltenham train station up to the place the interviews were conducted. I had no personal transport. It was a hot day. I was wearing a suit. The walk was several miles. The walk, the entire tedious application process, etc. had an effect on me. I actually believed that I was doing this out of a sense of service. I completely forgot that it represented a decent career, others' expectations of me, a roof over my head, my basic need for sex, etc. Now, older and a bit wiser, I can afford to say fuck 'em, and be true to my own values. It's not essential, it's not about patriotism and it's not about service. It's about basic human drives.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
As I said, you're naïve. There have been intelligence services throughout history - they help maintain the delicate balance. There have been armies and conflict throughout history and the intelligence services provide advanced warning of dangerous situations. I'd like to think that humanity can put all of that behind us but it's not going to happen in our lifetimes if ever. You get some kind of state formed based on social and fiscal equity and it won't be long before someone finds a way to game the system and gain advantage and that includes whatever passes for leadership. It's human nature.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:58 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, OK, as I say, that's your opinion, but in my opinion it's more naive to believe that there are good guys and bad guys, and that the intelligence agencies are there to protect us, the ordinary people. If you found yourself homeless and destitute, GCHQ isn't going to help you. I'm sure it helps someone or some people - just not this fabulous amorphous entity of "the people" that you claim. And the "greater good" excuses everything, doesn't it.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 00:02 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Well, OK, as I say, that's your opinion, but in my opinion it's more naive to believe that there are good guys and bad guys, and that the intelligence agencies are there to protect us, the ordinary people. If you found yourself homeless and destitute, GCHQ isn't going to help you. I'm sure it helps someone or some people - just not this fabulous amorphous entity of "the people" that you claim. And the "greater good" excuses everything, doesn't it.


The nation you belong to provides your social welfare and the intelligence services protect the nation. As long as you live in the nation you benefit from that and are expected to contribute towards it.

Global society is complicated and there really aren't any simple answers.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
As long as you live in the nation you benefit from that and are expected to contribute towards it.


It would be far easier to understand why you believe this is the case if you were to explain how you'd actually contributed towards the nation, in any capacity at all.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 00:10 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
Does it really put the record straight, though. Now, if you'd said that spooks are all a bunch of voyeuristic, neurotic curtain-twitchers and wankers, that might have set the record straight.

Not really a respectable profession, whichever way you look at it.


Islander is wrong, but he figures if he repeats himself often enough using ever longer pastes of text he will seem intelligent. It's a sign of a middle aged fuddy wuddy. They're the sort of person who goes into absolute meltdown when you call a Class 140 a Sprinter (it's a Pacer), or the Type 23 a Destroyer (it's a Frigate), or a Tornado F3 a GR4 (longer nose cone on the F3 Clapping Clapping Clapping ).

Despite the length of his post (which was very boring BTW!), he still missed the fact that the security services do their own getting separate from UKSV which defence contractors, military etc use.

Security and intelligence agencies such as MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service, MI5, The Security Service, the National Crime Agency and Government Communications Headquarters carry out their own in-house vetting using specialised interviewing officers and security teams.

It is possible for subjects to pass security vetting with one department/agency, yet fail it with another. Additionally some subjects for example may be granted SC (Security Check), yet be refused DV (Developed Vetting) clearance, or refused vetting with one department or organisation, yet by granted clearance with another similar organisation. This gives an indication of how nuanced the process can be.

The level of classification is considered equivalent and has the same name, but it's separate. And there is a reason it's separate. Because it's not really the same. The spooks are way more worried about espionage than say BAE Systems is Laughing

To be clear, I don't want any credit for being right. I've already said it's pedantic and irrelevant Laughing
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Islander
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Karma :
PostPosted: 00:15 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Bhud wrote:
Does it really put the record straight, though. Now, if you'd said that spooks are all a bunch of voyeuristic, neurotic curtain-twitchers and wankers, that might have set the record straight.

Not really a respectable profession, whichever way you look at it.


Islander is wrong, but he figures if he repeats himself often enough using ever longer pastes of text he will seem intelligent. It's a sign of a middle aged fuddy wuddy. They're the sort of person who goes into absolute meltdown when you call a Class 140 a Sprinter (it's a Pacer), or the Type 23 a Destroyer (it's a Frigate), or a Tornado F3 a GR4 (longer nose cone on the F3 Clapping Clapping Clapping ).

Despite the length of his post (which was very boring BTW!), he still missed the fact that the security services do their own getting separate from UKSV which defence contractors, military etc use.

Security and intelligence agencies such as MI6, the Secret Intelligence Service, MI5, The Security Service, the National Crime Agency and Government Communications Headquarters carry out their own in-house vetting using specialised interviewing officers and security teams.

It is possible for subjects to pass security vetting with one department/agency, yet fail it with another. Additionally some subjects for example may be granted SC (Security Check), yet be refused DV (Developed Vetting) clearance, or refused vetting with one department or organisation, yet by granted clearance with another similar organisation. This gives an indication of how nuanced the process can be.

The level of classification is considered equivalent and has the same name, but it's separate. And there is a reason it's separate. Because it's not really the same. The spooks are way more worried about espionage than say BAE Systems is Laughing

To be clear, I don't want any credit for being right. I've already said it's pedantic and irrelevant Laughing


Do you work for GCHQ?

Because if you do then it's shocking that you don't know how clearance standards work and are applied. DV is DV whether it's in the military, government, GCHQ, NCSC, MOD, MI5 or MI6. The same standard applies across the whole national structure.

Rolling Eyes
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bhud wrote:
I remember one time in my life when I really, really needed a job. A job was not only a means to put a roof over my head, but it defined my identity, and my entire perception of self-worth. And I remember going through the entire recruitment process for GCHQ, and having an interview with them. I got through all the tests and everything. They actually paid for my train fare (upon my request) to Cheltenham. After a 7- or 8-page application form where I had to write essays (OK, slight bit of hyperbole but still about 300 words each) as answers about how I needed the "challenge", I was properly tuned into this. I walked from Cheltenham train station up to the place the interviews were conducted. I had no personal transport. It was a hot day. I was wearing a suit. The walk was several miles. The walk, the entire tedious application process, etc. had an effect on me. I actually believed that I was doing this out of a sense of service. I completely forgot that it represented a decent career, others' expectations of me, a roof over my head, my basic need for sex, etc. Now, older and a bit wiser, I can afford to say fuck 'em, and be true to my own values. It's not essential, it's not about patriotism and it's not about service. It's about basic human drives.


So did you take the job at GCHQ or not? Not that I've got anything against them, I'm sure they are nice enough. Gloucester is a really boring place though so if you were looking for sex, you probably were looking in the wrong place tbh. Unless you are a woman of course, GCHQ sounds like a massive sausage fest so women would have it great.
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