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photoman
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 01 Sep 2021    Post subject: Engine Number Reply with quote
Whilst going through my recently acquired R1100RS I found the casting where the engine number should be stamped was apparently blank. Because this is hidden by the full fairing it has been allowed to corrode and the number (if there was one) cannot be seen.

This is not the first time I have come across this because I had a K100RS a few years ago and although this engine was not in such a bad condition, because the cast plate where the number should have been stamped was completely blank.

I asked at the franchised dealer where the bike was sold and apparently with BMW this is not unknown and when they first register the bikes they use the accompanying documentation to provide all the information. Of course now I don't have access this documentation and I am still waiting for my new V5 to be returned from DVLA.

I wonder how I stand?
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 02:55 - 02 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
On two feet, like the rest of us, I would guess... Laughing


Do you have a paperwork issue at the moment that is causing some grief?
Otherwise, for someone with a standard setup there isn't a problem and that is because no copper, MOT person or nosey busybody can, as you helpfully pointed out, see the location of the number casting, nor remove bodywork just because they feel like being a dick..
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photoman
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Joined: 07 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 08:09 - 02 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
mentalboy wrote:
On two feet, like the rest of us, I would guess... Laughing


Do you have a paperwork issue at the moment that is causing some grief?

Otherwise, for someone with a standard setup there isn't a problem and that is because no copper, MOT person or nosey busybody can, as you helpfully pointed out, see the location of the number casting, nor remove bodywork just because they feel like being a dick..


No nothing at the moment, but the engine number should be visible if needed. I have been stopped in Europe on a border crossing when I was leaving Germany into France for a 'routine check' when I had my last K1100. They wanted to check my bike over and I was asked to remove the knee pad so they could see if the engine number matched the V5. If even to check the motor is not from a stolen bike.
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MCN
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Joined: 22 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 10:46 - 02 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you're hooning aroon Yoorup on the beast/s then I'd expect 'things to be in order'. Or I couldn't be disappointed when lack of identifying data causes hassle from Johnny Foreigner PoPo/Customs Dood.
A bad photo, obliterated detail in a passport/visa would have the same effect.

Unless asked for it the DVLA V5 should be sufficient.

BMW are Kuhnts for placing numbers in shite places.

I understood there was a 'standard' of stamping the head tube. And eng. Ser. No. in conspicuous locations. But sadly, those standards have went oot the window since the fall of the Empire. Crying or Very sad
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blurredman
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Joined: 18 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 02 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I remember trying to get into Rumania and then realising- I hadn't packed my V5. They still let me in though.. lucky me.
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photoman
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 02 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:

I understood there was a 'standard' of stamping the head tube. And eng. Ser. No. in conspicuous locations. But sadly, those standards have went oot the window since the fall of the Empire. Crying or Very sad


Not really practical. Engines are sometimes changed and if the number is on the frame that could be a problem. If you changed the engine you could not legally be qualified to change the number on the frame.

It has been like this ever since at least the time I passed my test, engine and frames always had seperate numbers.
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 03:01 - 03 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
photoman wrote:
MCN wrote:

I understood there was a 'standard' of stamping the head tube. And eng. Ser. No. in conspicuous locations. But sadly, those standards have went oot the window since the fall of the Empire. Crying or Very sad


Not really practical. Engines are sometimes changed and if the number is on the frame that could be a problem. If you changed the engine you could not legally be qualified to change the number on the frame.

It has been like this ever since at least the time I passed my test, engine and frames always had seperate numbers.


I think you'll find that our esteemed Scottish member meant frame number on the head tube, engines do get changed out although not quite as often by the average Joe as when I were a lad.
It is not uncommon to see differing numbers on frame and engine but sometimes finding the engine, let alone a tiny set of numbers in a 75mm x 15mm dedicated spot, can be somewhat tricky with a fully faired bike.

I'm going to feign ignorance now and query something you said in your first post. It would appear from your post that you purchased a bike from a franchised dealer and you imply that you have no identifying documentation besides the V5, which the DVLA are sitting on at their leisure. In the reams of shit that the dealer gave you, is there nothing with frame and engine numbers on it? I might expect a back street dealer to issue a brief scribbled one sheet receipt with little more than the VIN and Reg number but dealerships tend to be particularly anal when it comes to paperwork.

If it bothers you so much why don't you, when you finally find an engine number, buy a cheap 30 quid set of stamping dies and stamp the number where it should be?
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photoman
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Joined: 07 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 08:52 - 03 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:

I understood there was a 'standard' of stamping the head tube. And eng. Ser. No. in conspicuous locations. But sadly, those standards have went oot the window since the fall of the Empire. Crying or Very sad


Not really practical. Engines are sometimes changed and if the number is on the frame that could be a problem. If you changed the engine you could not legally be qualified to change the number on the frame.

It has been like this ever since at least the time I passed my test, engine and frames always had seperate numbers.[/quote]

I think you'll find that our esteemed Scottish member meant frame number on the head tube, engines do get changed out although not quite as often by the average Joe as when I were a lad.
It is not uncommon to see differing numbers on frame and engine but sometimes finding the engine, let alone a tiny set of numbers in a 75mm x 15mm dedicated spot, can be somewhat tricky with a fully faired bike.

I'm going to feign ignorance now and query something you said in your first post. It would appear from your post that you purchased a bike from a franchised dealer and you imply that you have no identifying documentation besides the V5, which the DVLA are sitting on at their leisure. In the reams of shit that the dealer gave you, is there nothing with frame and engine numbers on it? I might expect a back street dealer to issue a brief scribbled one sheet receipt with little more than the VIN and Reg number but dealerships tend to be particularly anal when it comes to paperwork.

If it bothers you so much why don't you, when you finally find an engine number, buy a cheap 30 quid set of stamping dies and stamp the number where it should be?[/quote]

At no time did I mention that I had bought this bike from a franchised dealer. It was a bike I bought several years ago.

This bike was a private purchase. I have the engine number from the V5 and the old test certificates which were passed to me.

Stamping the engine number myself is not a good idea. If the font is not the same as that used by the manufacturer it may well be illegal in itself. I simply don't know.

I have found the dealer where the bike was originally sold and am waiting for an E mail with their response.
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mentalboy
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Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 05:03 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
photoman wrote:

At no time did I mention that I had bought this bike from a franchised dealer. It was a bike I bought several years ago.

This bike was a private purchase. I have the engine number from the V5 and the old test certificates which were passed to me.

Stamping the engine number myself is not a good idea. If the font is not the same as that used by the manufacturer it may well be illegal in itself. I simply don't know.

I have found the dealer where the bike was originally sold and am waiting for an E mail with their response.


Quote:
recently acquired R1100RS

Quote:
It was a bike I bought several years ago


Quote:
I asked at the franchised dealer where the bike was sold

Quote:
This bike was a private purchase.


It helps to give clear, concise details in your first post so that we aren't guessing what you mean.

So, here is what I think: Yes, the type font will be different but how many coppers looking at an engine number would know what it is supposed to look like and if you only tickled the surface so that it was just legible I doubt if anyone would be any the wiser.
I owned bikes fairly consistently from 1983 until I emigrated in 2015, in 2013 I had 13 road legal bikes in my 'stable' and my count of machines owned and ridden is around fifty, not to mention all the projects that got moved on before completion or MOT. In more than 30 years I haven't ever had an officer check anything other the VIN, just the one time.

Secondly: If you hear anything back from the original dealership that first registered the bike I'll be pleasantly surprised, as they rank right up there with politicians, lawyers and estate agents.

If you really want to get into the legality of stamping engine numbers I believe you'll find that only the manufacturer can do it and I'd be surprised if they would do it retroactively.[/quote][/b]
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P.
Red Rocket



Joined: 14 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I wouldnt bat an eyelid. I'd just get someone to restamp the one from the V5..
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Shaft
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Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 14:00 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
0.69 seconds on Google (other search engines are available) tells me your engine number should be on the right hand crankcase, in front of the cylinder - it should also be visible without removing any bodywork.
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photoman
Two Stroke Sniffer



Joined: 07 Aug 2021
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PostPosted: 14:10 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote (other search engines are available) tells me your engine number should be on the right hand crankcase, in front of the cylinder - it should also be visible without removing any bodywork.[/quote]

Tel that the BMW. Mine should be stamped on a cast plate, behind and below the right hand cylinder and covered with the right hand side fairing. That is the location given in the handbook.

Methinks once again Dr Google is wrong!
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Shaft
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Joined: 27 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
photoman wrote:
[quote (other search engines are available) tells me your engine number should be on the right hand crankcase, in front of the cylinder - it should also be visible without removing any bodywork.


Tel that the BMW. Mine should be stamped on a cast plate, behind and below the right hand cylinder and covered with the right hand side fairing. That is the location given in the handbook.

Methinks once again Dr Google is wrong![/quote]

Actually it was from several postings on a BMW owner's forum, one of them even had a picture at one point.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035
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mentalboy
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 May 2012
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PostPosted: 15:40 - 04 Sep 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paddy. wrote:
I wouldnt bat an eyelid. I'd just get someone to restamp the one from the V5..


A runner with no engine number gotta be worth five ponds, why u no make the usual offer? Laughing
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