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arry
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

I heard a Soundgarden track the other day and quite liked it


Worth looking at Audioslave, then. Cornell's superband project. Not particularly grungy, definitely more rock.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

I heard a Soundgarden track the other day and quite liked it


Worth looking at Audioslave, then. Cornell's superband project. Not particularly grungy, definitely more rock.


Audioslave, yes I like... however their first album (self titled) is awesome and then the subsequent two were extremely blah IMO. It's a shame it should have worked.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:


How naive? Pixies created grunge, Trigger. Rolling Eyes

https://www.nme.com/features/inside-the-cult-of-pixies-why-theyre-not-just-a-band-757394#:~:text=They%20invented%20grunge&text=Alongside%20H%C3%BCsker%20D%C3%BC%20and%20the,Rosa'%20and%20'Doolittle'.

Quote:
They invented grunge
Quiet/loud? That was Pixies. Radiohead cited them as a major influence and David Bowie hailed them as leftfield US giants, but their most notable testimonial came from one Kurt Cobain, who admitted that when writing ‘Smells Like Teen Spirit’ he was basically copying the electro-therapy dynamic that Black Francis and crew had perfected on tracks like ‘Gouge Away’ and ‘Tame’. Alongside Hüsker Dü and the ’80s US hardcore scene, the grunge movement was rooted in Pixies’ early records – ‘Come On Pilgrim’, ‘Surfer Rosa’ and ‘Doolittle’. So any time you hear an alt-rock band making a noise like melodic excavation machinery – from Wolf Alice to Savages – that’s Pixies gnawing at their souls.


Lol ace. At the time, Pixies were definitely not thought of as grunge, didn't play with grunge bands, and didn't sound like them either.

A much grungier album from 1988 (release year of Pixies' first LP Surfer Rosa) was MBV's Isn't Anything - songs like Feed Me With Your Kiss and You're Still in a Dream are much more like undisputable grunge classics such as Mud Honey's Touch Me I'm Sick (1988) and Nirvana's Blew.

Suffice to say MBV weren't grunge and haven't ever been thought of that way either. Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:23 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I think it's always hard to define the edges of a genre. Most bands have influences from more than just the categories they get slotted into, which is done merely as a point of convenience, something to give people a rough idea of the kind of area they're working in.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:08 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
Not necessarily all grunge but people that like grunge tend to like this sort of thing...


Thanks for that. I'll get around to working through those Thumbs Up
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:
It's the quiet/loud/quiet style which Francis made his own and others copied even to this day.


I certainly hadn't thought of grunge in that way. Mostly loud Laughing Sort of a slower version of the punk attitude of rough and ready, but not so intense. Stripped down, fairly basic instrumentation for the most part, perhaps a fatter, fuller sound than punk.

I think that's what I'm interested in here. A garage band type thing, no frills, lots of gnarly guitars but not showy. Let's have grunge as the focus of the thread though, cos you're all teaching me what it really is. I had only a vague impression, and some of the things I would have put in that category probably aren't.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:
Your ignorance of the genre is outstanding, but unsurprising.

Pixies invented the entire sound. The Slow-Fast-Slow/Loud-Quiet-Loud which is grunge.


That wasn't really Tad's sound (they tended to be just loud), and it wasn't really Mud Honey's approach either. But they're prominent in the start of grunge. Others worth mentioning are Killdozer who were much closer to the sound of grunge than the Pixies were. Intellectuals are the Shoeshine Boys of the Ruling Elite was 1984.

Cable Tie wrote:
I suppose you think UK Punk wasn't born from the the Dammed - New Rose too?


I think the Ramones were more important. Certainly, their first album anyway. It was released in April of '76 - New Rose didn't come out for another six months. Also, it had a major label release through Sire whereas New Rose's Stiff pressing was tiny in comparison. Far more people in the UK would've been influenced by that first Ramones album, if only because it was so much easier to hear and buy.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ok, going to edit this post as I get through the links you've all posted.
Can those of you who have suggested bands also suggest a track or two I can go check out that you feel encapsulates what the band is about, ta.

Howling Terror wrote:
To kick you off ....The Melvins https://youtu.be/Py2fG-NgfkA



I like the overall feel of this, and it would certainly fit in the, let's say, imaginary playlist, although it didn't have anything that particularly made it stand out, and on the basis of this track, wouldn't make me go hunting out their catalogue.

Howling Terror wrote:
An old friend (Dead Dave) likes Green River https://youtu.be/GcK4J_iOPGY


This makes me think that the divide between grunge and punk can be a very thin line indeed. Again, quite like the overall feel, but not keen on the vocal style, of course just a personal thing.

Please don't post whole albums of your suggestions, just a track or two you particularly like, or as said, you feel sums a band up.

The Artist wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NZsCYOM4j0 (Stabbing Westward)


I like this. With the break in the middle, it addresses the "loud/quiet/loud" thing that Cable Tie mentions. If you're going to have a tune that stays on one level throughout, it either needs to be something particularly outstanding, or it needs to be short. I like stuff with changes, or that builds. Keeps it interesting.
Not always a fan of synths, but it added a nice touch that helped to lift this track.
Nice heavy guitar sound.

The Artist wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vujMy_r5NsY (Screaming Trees)


Ok, my favourite so far.
Like the bongos added in the percussion.
Plenty of guitar stuff going on in this track. Like the changes between the lower register and then to increased intensity in the vocals.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie, what you mean by "loud/quiet/loud" is DYNAMICS I think? It's something I love in my own more usual choice of music. Led Zep had it, Rush had it in spades, to give just a couple of examples.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Cable Tie, what you mean by "loud/quiet/loud" is DYNAMICS I think? It's something I love in my own more usual choice of music. Led Zep had it, Rush had it in spades, to give just a couple of examples.


This is why many grungeologists claim Beethoven started grunge, what with his quiet / loud dynamics and his fast / slow bits.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:


Think of all songs seen as grunge. The verses are quiet, it's the chorus which kicks off. Even Nirvana follow this principal. I'd add QOTSA as a major grunge band.


But this is something that has existed in rock music since its earliest days, so while that could be a part of what defines grunge, I think there has to be more. I mean, obviously trevor's talk of Beethoven as grunge is a bit facetious, but he has a point. What you're referring to is just dynamics.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Artist wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE5f561Y1x4 (Screaming Trees 2)


That's 2/2 I like from this band. Enough to suggest I should delve further into these guys' stuff.

The Artist wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDMvN45sjo4 (Audioslave)


Yep, like it. Like the bass sound fattening out the rhythm, like the vocal style, simple catchy riff, plenty of power, like the firework down the back of the jacket Laughing
Shout out to arry for mentioning these too.

The Artist wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2K2hSB4fEU (Rage Against The Machine)


Not a fan of rap. Band sound was ok though. What was that guitar going through on some of the rhythm? Flanger? Interesting lead approach, very synth-like.

Edit: The vocalist;
Saw your coal black eyes
Like looking into the pits of Hell
A wafting of a sulphurous smell
I wonder what dark secrets they have to tell

Nope, no idea where that came from Laughing
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Last edited by chickenstrip on 22:59 - 07 Oct 2021; edited 1 time in total
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:
The Ramones were from New York and not the origin of UK punk.
You're mixing up 2 genres again.


In 1976, and even into early '77, there was just one genre of punk. Not two genres. In that first wave, The Ramones, The Damned, Buzzcocks, Sex Pistols, et al were part of an undifferentiated style, i.e. punk. So no - I'm not mixing up two genres because punk at that stage wasn't two genres. Later, at the end of the '70s and in the early '80s, fragmentation would kick in and there'd be US hardcore (Black Flag, Minor Threat, et al) and what came to be called Brit Punk (Exploited, Anti-Pasti, Abrasive Wheels etc.) and also D-Beat (Discharge, primarily).

Secondly, why can't an American band be the origin of a British style? Answer - it can, and has been on loads of occasions down the years, starting with British jazz of the '30s and '40s - which obviously had its roots in America. Zooming on to acid house in the late '80s, that Chicago sound was a huge influence on e.g. British house music like 808 State and A Guy Called Gerald.

Cable Tie wrote:
The Damned - New Rose is unquestionably the birth of UK Punk. The Clash and Sex Pistols, amongst many others, then pioneered the sound to the masses.


But before that was The Ramones. And they influenced The Damned, therefore they're part of what led to the creation of punk in the UK. The Ramones were the first punk band - they were the first band to be called punk. There literally couldn't have been a British punk band without them.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


But this is something that has existed in rock music since its earliest days, so while that could be a part of what defines grunge, I think there has to be more. I mean, obviously trevor's talk of Beethoven as grunge is a bit facetious, but he has a point. What you're referring to is just dynamics.


Post a YouTube example link of one.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2CCfxiQ5QY
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 18:36 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cable Tie wrote:
Post a YouTube example link of one.


Bohemian Rhapsody has quiet and loud bits and slow and fast parts.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:22 - 07 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steps are on tour.
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