Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Vehicle Tracking

Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Geek Zone Goto page 1, 2  Next
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 14:56 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Vehicle Tracking Reply with quote

Something I've been working on for a while and I could do with some opinions from the BCF members if you would be so gracious Smile

"Traditional" tracking services general involve purchase of a tracker, possibly professional install and a hefty annual fee. If you're riding round on a brand new Ninja H2R these costs might be trivial but for your typical commuter bike you might find it a little difficult to justify.

No worries, turn to a little DIY! You can grab a basic Chinese-made tracker for £20, right? Some downsides...

Supply your own SIM

While you could just buy a pay as you go SIM you're probably looking at ~£5 per month and O2, GiffGaff, Tesco, etc. are expecting you to have the SIM in a phone the upshot being managing the credit might be a pain and £60 per year on a mobile connection means you're a good way towards a traditional tracking costs.

Okay, so do these traditional tracking services have this problem? Nope, they negotiate for more specific services e.g. limited data requirement, no voice calls needed, international roaming and this brings the costs down dramatically. As a consumer you can get single SIMs with the limited functionality needed by a tracker but it becomes a bit of a murky area interpreting what you might need from business oriented suppliers. There's also a big overlap with the whole "Internet of Things" market which can be both help and hinderance.

Is it worth the effort? If you can get the right mobile solution it could bring the annual cost down to £10~£20.

Configuration

In a word: fiddly. The cheap trackers need carefully formatted SMS to be sent for things like setting up security and the mobile APN. Replies are often in Mandarin Shocked

Software

Out-of-the-box vehicle tracking information is sent to a ropey website in China, 'nuff said Sad Thankfully you can send it elsewhere and there just so happens to be an Open Source project to do this in traccar.org. You therefore have the option to either run your own server or bung them some money each month. What you get is an easy to use map which updates itself with vehicle telemetry.

Questions

So... is a cheap tracking solution of interest to anyone? I'm pretty sure I've asked before but got zero reaction Sad If it is of interest you can either do all the above that I've outlined above (the tech bois with have a grand adventure with it) or would anyone be interested in a more turnkey solution?

"Aiiiiii! He's selling something! Burn the heretic!!!"

No, I was thinking more along the lines of a step-by-step guide - what to buy, where to get it, how to fit it, configuration, etc. - but that's a fair bit of work and I haven't got all the pieces in place yet, so to speak.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:33 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been semi-tempted to add something to the car and bike but never seen much point as I'm in a low risk area and my insurance would actually go up if I added it to either vehicle.

If I did though, I'd probably just use an Airtag.... Hide it in one of these and you're sorted.

https://i.ebayimg.com/thumbs/images/g/K14AAOSw-Ktgmop~/s-l225.webp
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 16:16 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

AirTag isn't a GPS tracker. If there aren't any Apple devices nearby it doesn't have anyone to talk to, it also doesn't offer any sort of telemetry. And Apple?! Barely any better than relying on the Chinese Wink
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:31 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah it’ll never replace a live tracking system but for finding out where your stolen bike is (a bit more stealthily) it’s pretty solid. Chances are your twocer will be using an iPhone too (because they’re cvnts).
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Keithy
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 22 Sep 2020
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:39 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I’m in for a cheap tracking solution! Thumbs Up

MCN article Sep 29 ‘Beat the bastid bike thieves’ - a bloke called Kieran Donnelly-Shard of Mad Slick Motorcycles say they can supply an alarm for £30 or a tracker for £50, £65 for both. Although I notice they are looking at £6/month for the SIM.

Our work account has a ‘data pool’, so we pay a fixed amount for 1TB of data and it is split over however many SIMs we have in circulation. I know mobile providers have family accounts, I wonder how cheap we can get a data only SIM when it’s using bugger all data.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion



Joined: 09 Oct 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:14 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought a palm-sized black box ‘BuFan Mini GPS’ from Amazon for £40 plus the cost of a SIMcard. Location via the “ropey Chinese website” (no subscription) can be slightly off but it has geo-fencing, sends SMS messages and the battery lasts up to two weeks.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:34 - 08 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I bought a palm-sized black box ‘BuFan Mini GPS’ from Amazon for £40 plus the cost of a SIMcard. Location via the “ropey Chinese website” (no subscription) can be slightly off but it has geo-fencing, sends SMS messages and the battery lasts up to two weeks.


Yes, that's the sort of thing. Traccar can replace the Chinese website and if you're super paranoid you can host it yourself on an old PC.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

yen_powell
World Chat Champion



Joined: 22 Jun 2008
Karma :

PostPosted: 11:31 - 09 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is vehicle tracking.
https://images.versys1000.com/vehicle-tracking.jpg
____________________
Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

recman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Mar 2012
Karma :

PostPosted: 19:17 - 09 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galaxy Smart Tag.
I received a couple of these last week for my birthday.
They work rather well.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:11 - 09 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

recman wrote:
Galaxy Smart Tag.
I received a couple of these last week for my birthday.
They work rather well.


No different to the AirTag. It's not a self-contained system you rely on a shadow-network provided by the manufacturer's other clients. GPS trackers can be almost entirely self reliant, if one so chooses.

<addendum> In case ppl are unaware, some explaination.

AirTag etc. are what's classed as Bluetooth trackers. They will announce themselves to nearby compatible devices (mobile phones) which might in turn tell the manufacturer who'll then tell you. If there are no nearby devices (or if said devices have Bluetooth switched off) no one will hear their bleating. These trackers have no clue where they are only where they are in relation to these other devices.

GPS trackers listen to the various navigation satellites to know where they are with certainty and then announce their co-ordinates directly over a mobile network to a nominated server.

While the two approaches might approach the same end result in an urban area with a saturation of mobile devices they're fundamentally apples vs. oranges.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 21:25 - 09 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

yen_powell wrote:


Looks like a picture to me. How many vehicles are there? How fast are they going? Are their ignition systems active? Can you remotely deactivate them if they are?
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

GettinBetter
Crazy Courier



Joined: 20 Jun 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:55 - 18 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very interesting.

Assuming bikes are either:
1. Stolen, hidden for a period of time, then stripped and sold for spares.
2. Stolen and shipped abroad for resale under fraudulant docs.

So If you DID have a DIY tracker on your bike:
A. Would you go looking for it? What if you were met with an agressive gang?
B. Ask the police to go to the location? How long before they got off their backsides and followed up your call.
C. Would it help lower your insurance? If you collected sucessful locate & find results maybe reputable bodies may come on board.

I was just asking myself what would I do if I had one on my bike, as at the moment I have no obligation to confront bike thieves, but just let the insurance deal with it. But what if you knew it was a couple of miles down the road, would you deal with it?

Just thinking out aloud.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:06 - 19 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I quite often hear of bikes dumped/moved only a few streets away. If the thieves are just scrotes they'll probably try (and fail) to hotwire it. But I wouldn't go alone, that's for sure!

Personally I'd like to know exactly where it was and carefully plan my next move. The police are of zero help and I could do without my insurance being hiked up. I suppose a high-end commercial tracker might get them to issue a crime reference number a tad quicker but that's about it.

Anyhoo, progress update on SIMs. My usual UK supplier has a new plan with 20MB of data and 20 text messages but the price is £4 per month. At that price the like of GiffGaff don't look too bad Sad I'm instead looking at a German supplier focused on the IoT market which should cost around £10~£20 per year.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:24 - 19 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bike Trac is the only one I'd consider if I wanted a tracker.

Bike Trac successes on BCF:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=322278
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=325394

They seem to make it easy enough for the police to recover stolen vehicles and it seems that they actively pester the police to get vehicles recovered.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 23:23 - 20 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Bike Trac is the only one I'd consider if I wanted a tracker.

Bike Trac successes on BCF:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=322278
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=325394

They seem to make it easy enough for the police to recover stolen vehicles and it seems that they actively pester the police to get vehicles recovered.


At £39 per month I'd expect them too! I'm talking more like £20 for a device, fit it yourself and pay ~£20 per year to run it. Apples & Oranges.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

AL-
World Chat Champion



Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:52 - 21 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use monimoto

https://monimoto.com/uk/motorcycle-anti-theft-solution/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqvGRg8Xb8wIVIBoGAB0F_w7xEAAYAiAAEgL1gPD_BwE

Paid around £120 for the unit. Subscription cost around £30 odd for the year

Works really well. If the bike moves without the tracker fob nearby it instantly calls me to alert me then provides GPS and map of where the bike is, speed travelling etc

It's battery powered and the app shows me battery level. The battery lasts upto 2 years I believe
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:01 - 21 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

AL- wrote:
I use monimoto

https://monimoto.com/uk/motorcycle-anti-theft-solution/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqvGRg8Xb8wIVIBoGAB0F_w7xEAAYAiAAEgL1gPD_BwE

Paid around £120 for the unit. Subscription cost around £30 odd for the year

Works really well. If the bike moves without the tracker fob nearby it instantly calls me to alert me then provides GPS and map of where the bike is, speed travelling etc

It's battery powered and the app shows me battery level. The battery lasts upto 2 years I believe


That's a much more reasonable proposition.

I'm making some progress with the German IoT SIM provider. The reason they're so cheap is because they're not actually on the Internet and MO (mobile originating) access is via a NAT layer. Given how rubbish Chinese kit is for security this is actually a blessing.

For example one tracker I'm looking at at the moment literally has zero: no password, no tie to a single number for SMS commands, nothing. If one were to put a standard PAYG SIM in there anyone who knew the number could switch it off surreptitiously. And just to compound things you could buy an identical looking tracker with a more extensive security system for the same money - just a different chipset inside.

Anyhoo, outgoing only is fine for telemetry as command and control is via SMS.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 00:38 - 27 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

A progress update: I've got the shit tracker working with my secure SIMs. Lacking though it is in security it seems to go to sleep until it senses movement which is a nice bonus feature. I'm hoping it'll give a more continuous stream of data for a moving vehicle which would be very frugal on data usage.

It also features a remotely controllable silicon relay. I don't think I'd want it to control all the power on a bike - probably better as a hidden kill switch for the ignition.

As the German SIMs can send and receive SMS via a REST API I should be able to slap together a unified interface for telemetry, remote alerts and commands Thinking
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 08:03 - 27 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
A progress update: I've got the shit tracker working with my secure SIMs. Lacking though it is in security it seems to go to sleep until it senses movement which is a nice bonus feature. I'm hoping it'll give a more continuous stream of data for a moving vehicle which would be very frugal on data usage.

It also features a remotely controllable silicon relay. I don't think I'd want it to control all the power on a bike - probably better as a hidden kill switch for the ignition.

As the German SIMs can send and receive SMS via a REST API I should be able to slap together a unified interface for telemetry, remote alerts and commands Thinking


The Scropio alarm I had on my Gixxer and F4i had a circuit cutoff for anti hijack. I found the fuel pump relay was the best one to splice into. Killswitch might be a bit sudden if it decides to suddenly activate when you're mid corner.....
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Easy-X
Super Spammer



Joined: 08 Mar 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 13:56 - 27 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
The Scropio alarm I had on my Gixxer and F4i had a circuit cutoff for anti hijack. I found the fuel pump relay was the best one to splice into. Killswitch might be a bit sudden if it decides to suddenly activate when you're mid corner.....


Mmmm, good point. The delightfully bad Chinglish documentation refers to it as "OIL CUT" Laughing
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :

PostPosted: 20:34 - 27 Oct 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
The Scropio alarm I had on my Gixxer and F4i had a circuit cutoff for anti hijack. I found the fuel pump relay was the best one to splice into. Killswitch might be a bit sudden if it decides to suddenly activate when you're mid corner.....


Mmmm, good point. The delightfully bad Chinglish documentation refers to it as "OIL CUT" Laughing


To be fair, that would stop the bike. Shocked Laughing
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Hong Kong Phooey
World Chat Champion



Joined: 30 Apr 2016
Karma :

PostPosted: 15:35 - 07 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've often thought about repurposing an old mobile phone to do this, but the power consumption is too high, even with the screen off and all the junk deleted they tend to phone home to Google too often, so a fully charged phone might last a week at most, and might eat all the data.

The parasitic draw on a bike battery when topping up the mobile phone, would eventually mean you trying to start a bike on a dead battery, so probably not a good idea, although it would make life harder for a thief too.
____________________
'81 CG125, '97 FZS600 : '99 CBR600F4, '09 KTM RC8
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Jmoan
Brolly Dolly



Joined: 18 Nov 2015
Karma :

PostPosted: 18:32 - 07 Mar 2022    Post subject: Re: Vehicle Tracking Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:

No worries, turn to a little DIY! You can grab a basic Chinese-made tracker for £20, right? Some downsides...

Supply your own SIM

While you could just buy a pay as you go SIM you're probably looking at ~£5 per month and O2, GiffGaff, Tesco, etc.


What happened to the pay as you go sim cards that you didn't need to do anything with apart make the odd call every few months?
How do people manage emergency basic phones for their kids?
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

t121anf
World Chat Champion



Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Karma :

PostPosted: 22:50 - 07 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASDA PAYG sim, use it at least once every 6 months to keep it active.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
Karma :

PostPosted: 04:40 - 08 Mar 2022    Post subject: Re: Vehicle Tracking Reply with quote

Jmoan wrote:
How do people manage emergency basic phones for their kids?

Don't most kids have smartphones now?

Annoyingly this is dated 2019 and has a rather small sample size but apparently 93% of 8 to 15 year olds had their own smartphones in 2019. https://www.statista.com/statistics/805397/children-ownership-of-tablets-smartphones-by-age-uk/

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-51358192
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-7945231/Many-children-mobile-phone-time-seven-report-suggests.html

I'd assume that the numbers are even higher now.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 21 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> The Geek Zone All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 

Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.40 Sec - Server Load: 0.3 - MySQL Queries: 17 - Page Size: 141.18 Kb