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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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 Posted: 18:49 - 14 Dec 2021  Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
There is a side of life in this country that everyone tries to avoid at all costs, but which many cannot. If you take away all hope from people, I just don't know what the political and social consequences of that may be. This forum, and I'm making an assumption here, does come out of that basic work hard play hard ideology, whereby if you work hard, play by the rules, save money, etc. and grit your teeth and get on the daily grind, then you can have a satisfactory life. It would all come together. People bought sportsbikes before they had all the essentials lined up. People got married and had kids before they had all their living necessities secured, etc. There was this idea that even if you were from an underprivileged background, you could nevertheless enjoy life and eke out a decent existence by making the right choices. At 17 learn to drive. At 24 or whatever, learn to ride. Buy a car, buy a bike, get a mortgage, etc.
What's being proposed just puts these aspirations on hold, if not indefinitely, then seemingly indefinitely. I don't know. It just seems that if you let people have an XR3i or whatever then they'll happily look forward to the day they buy a Range Rover. Realistic aspirations of a normal life. Whereas now the govt is telling them, be happy with your bicycle and the bus, but carry on being productive regardless, go back to your tower block flat, which you rent and which can't have an EV charging port installed, and watch a £4 million Aston on Top Gear, while asset prices go through the roof, etc. Whatever.. Just don't see how this would work. |
This is why I started the thread, because what are the social and political consequences going to be? |
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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Posted: 19:17 - 14 Dec 2021  Post subject: |
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| Ribenapigeon wrote: |
This is why I started the thread, because what are the social and political consequences going to be? |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution
^i.e. it doesn't stop at 80:20. It's a power law and goes more and more extreme.
A lot of channeled desperation will turn politics to the hard left, I think. This will not improve anything. But it might sedate them enough. Right now, few people (only the older gen) even remember the old world. Younger people will probably adapt to a world with no freedom in exchange for provision, I reckon. But that remains to be seen. I'm not certain about it. However, I think Conservatives and Labour will transform to become brand identities, and their core products/policies will adapt to changing demand. They will go hard-left and pin the blame on the "bourgeoisie", I think. That's anyone who owns anything at all.
Socially, people will be indoors. They won't have personal transport. What they will have, is affordable electronics.
Electronics (and electrical goods) are good for business in lots of ways, because people buy them without realising they don't own them (i.e. they contain closed software). Which means you sell them more stuff next year, etc.
You can't miss what you never had, right? You can't resent what you don't know. You see a guy driving a modest car and you don't see the huge country house, 3 swimming pools, horse stables, etc. Why? Because he looks like a common man. This trick can be extended by clipping the wings of people. Therefore, socially, there is a good chance people will adapt, and be grateful for the chicken wings, and happy. Because nobody has a helicopter, 3 swimming pools and a 12-bedroom mansion, right? Chicken wings are highly resistant to inflationary pressures, unlike houses. "If you live in Luton you have no business, ever, being in Sonning Common."
That sort of thing. Control of information. You could tell people what it's like to drive the Nurburgring, but no, they already "know", because they've done it a thousand times in their simulator. And they won't value or believe your experience because it isn't theirs. Besides, you've got grey hair, are therefore a boomer, etc. That's what the future looks like.
I think VR may come in to fill a hole, and something new will come of it. After all, if everything is already owned in the physical world, it might not be, in the digital world. In the digital world, there's a chance all their desires could be fulfilled. A world in which they're rich, rather than a world full of things they can never expect to have... I know VR has been around a long time. But this new situation might be the impetus it really needed. I think it's a possibility. |
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| JackButler |
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JackButler
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| Posted: 00:25 - 15 Dec 2021 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
I think VR may come in to fill a hole, and something new will come of it. After all, if everything is already owned in the physical world, it might not be, in the digital world. In the digital world, there's a chance all their desires could be fulfilled. A world in which they're rich, rather than a world full of things they can never expect to have... I know VR has been around a long time. But this new situation might be the impetus it really needed. I think it's a possibility. |
My first serious girlfriend's (wipes tear) father was a consultant psychiatrist & very much a driving force of research into how the progression of technology into the new world will affect us as a society.
Back in the days of Space Invaders & Galaxians he was already formulating possible scenarios based on full immersive VR. I met him around about the time that Duke Nukem was considered revolutionary & every progression in virtual entertainment since around that period has served only to confirm & reinforce his belief that as a society "we are fucked".
Are we? My argument was always based on the fact, that throughout history, we have always outnumbered the weaklings that are prone to be sucked inside their vision of what they want us to be.
If you think that mankinds future is for us all to be wrapped up inside a comfort zone biosphere, then you been watching too much 'Matrix' matey !
If you truly believe that the future is "you will own nothing & you will be happy", then you need to explain to me how the VAST majority of people who need to own something, but not necessarily all of it, will be placated.
We will burn your house down, as we have done before.
____________________
I clean my guns with the tears of the snivelling, left wing scum. |
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Bhud
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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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Posted: 13:43 - 15 Dec 2021  Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_distribution
^i.e. it doesn't stop at 80:20. It's a power law and goes more and more extreme.
A lot of channeled desperation will turn politics to the hard left, I think. This will not improve anything. But it might sedate them enough. Right now, few people (only the older gen) even remember the old world. Younger people will probably adapt to a world with no freedom in exchange for provision, I reckon. But that remains to be seen. I'm not certain about it. However, I think Conservatives and Labour will transform to become brand identities, and their core products/policies will adapt to changing demand. They will go hard-left and pin the blame on the "bourgeoisie", I think. That's anyone who owns anything at all.
Socially, people will be indoors. They won't have personal transport. What they will have, is affordable electronics.
Electronics (and electrical goods) are good for business in lots of ways, because people buy them without realising they don't own them (i.e. they contain closed software). Which means you sell them more stuff next year, etc.
You can't miss what you never had, right? You can't resent what you don't know. You see a guy driving a modest car and you don't see the huge country house, 3 swimming pools, horse stables, etc. Why? Because he looks like a common man. This trick can be extended by clipping the wings of people. Therefore, socially, there is a good chance people will adapt, and be grateful for the chicken wings, and happy. Because nobody has a helicopter, 3 swimming pools and a 12-bedroom mansion, right? Chicken wings are highly resistant to inflationary pressures, unlike houses. "If you live in Luton you have no business, ever, being in Sonning Common."
That sort of thing. Control of information. You could tell people what it's like to drive the Nurburgring, but no, they already "know", because they've done it a thousand times in their simulator. And they won't value or believe your experience because it isn't theirs. Besides, you've got grey hair, are therefore a boomer, etc. That's what the future looks like.
I think VR may come in to fill a hole, and something new will come of it. After all, if everything is already owned in the physical world, it might not be, in the digital world. In the digital world, there's a chance all their desires could be fulfilled. A world in which they're rich, rather than a world full of things they can never expect to have... I know VR has been around a long time. But this new situation might be the impetus it really needed. I think it's a possibility. |
Interesting and probably not far off the mark. I think its more likely people will be drawn more towards a far right though as when expectations are thwarted that gives more ground for the rightists to exploit, people tend to vote left when they feel positive and feel there is room to spend on progressive social policy and public services. There's already theory's that a lot of crisis' over the last century have been manufactured to drive people to the right and keep a ruling elite in power, the cold war being a good example. The prospect of everyone being plugged into the super-boob-tube of VR is worrying. I cant say I would be immune I could quite happily plug myself in the VR version of the latest Microsoft flight simulator if I could afford it. |
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| Zen Dog |
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Zen Dog
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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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| Bhud |
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Bhud
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| Posted: 16:28 - 15 Dec 2021 Post subject: |
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| Ribenapigeon wrote: | Interesting and probably not far off the mark. I think its more likely people will be drawn more towards a far right though as when expectations are thwarted that gives more ground for the rightists to exploit, people tend to vote left when they feel positive and feel there is room to spend on progressive social policy and public services. There's already theory's that a lot of crisis' over the last century have been manufactured to drive people to the right and keep a ruling elite in power, the cold war being a good example. The prospect of everyone being plugged into the super-boob-tube of VR is worrying. I cant say I would be immune I could quite happily plug myself in the VR version of the latest Microsoft flight simulator if I could afford it. |
Personally, I think we're going to see a lurch to the left - big time. Not that it matters, really.
The problem with VR is, as soon as you mention, people freak out. Without realising that their portable digital ID - in the direct line of sight of coordinating supranational bodies who have designs upon it - is the thing that presents the realest risk to their privacy, freedom and security.
I don't think the forum here reflects anything, tbh. Just like the new BSA is designed to separate retirees from their cash, in the full knowledge it will be phased out in a couple of years, so it's the same for that electric hyperbike thing for the next generation down... None of this stuff, including the desire to return to an idealised era of nationalisation (or even nation-states), reflects what's happening in the real world.
What's happening is software. Everything is turning into software. Things become ideas, with the help of software. Things are linked and sold and bought and leased, using software. Software is the vital link.
To use a very plain analogy - suppose you want to build a cabin in the woods. You have to buy the woods, get planning permission, get an architect to draw up compliant plans, get builders to build it to a regulated standard, get utilities to reach the property, get it registered with the local authority, etc. There are a lot of things you need to do. Realistically, this can't be achieved by everyone - there are too many people. It isn't sustainable. There isn't enough land. It's environmentally damaging, etc. So, some people will get emotional and freak out. Who cares?
Human beings have abundant creativity. They can create other things in the domain of software. They can try out different ideas without having any outlay or capital at all, in some cases, with the help of software. They can find new ways to communicate with others. They can create art. And, yes, they can create a cabin in the woods, in VR. This is an avenue of opportunity for clever young people. It doesn't replace the physical world - it just adds value to it. It can even be a layer on top of it. And they don't need any paymaster or patronage: we're back in a true and pure era of "build it and they will come".
Whether we like it or not, this is the new reality, and it's here. It doesn't mean people will be plugged into something against their will. It just means that physical artefacts or places get assigned a memory address in cyberspace, so that a seamless integration takes place. This is exactly like writing a grammar. Imagine you invent a language. You have to invent names for things (nouns), and then a protocol for coherence between them. The names need not correspond to underlying physical realities, but the names can be proper names, with a capital letter, i.e. owned. It's like that. Lexicon and grammar.
In the short-to-immediate term, what it means for car ownership is that people with no alternative in the form of public transport will lease:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service
This is an exploit, in the exact same vein as the BSA or the electric hyperbike. All commercial enterprise is. People want something new and cool. How many people pay outright for a new Iphone? This stuff is here and it's happening. Yes, people also want ownership, and pride of ownership, and to create an id using things they own, whether they created them or bought them. But the ownership and personality side of things will all be done in the realm of software. Choose the colour of your dashboard lights, just as you choose your avatar. Nothing new.
In a sense it's wise to look for where the downside might be. But there are significant upsides, too. For example, not many of us have flown an aircraft, and even fewer a fighter jet. But we will definitely enjoy an improved synthetic/mimetic experience of one, in the future. And I don't think it's a matter of shame when anything as harmless as that improves your quality of life. To extend this downwards, what it means is that people in the future may feel that they have experienced all the great cars and bikes of the past, even if they haven't. If that's what they want. And they can even own them. Plus Ford could re-release the XR3i, in digital, and sell it to them. Just an example. |
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| Ribenapigeon |
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Ribenapigeon
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| Posted: 17:00 - 15 Dec 2021 Post subject: |
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| Bhud wrote: |
Personally, I think we're going to see a lurch to the left - big time. Not that it matters, really.
The problem with VR is, as soon as you mention, people freak out. Without realising that their portable digital ID - in the direct line of sight of coordinating supranational bodies who have designs upon it - is the thing that presents the realest risk to their privacy, freedom and security.
I don't think the forum here reflects anything, tbh. Just like the new BSA is designed to separate retirees from their cash, in the full knowledge it will be phased out in a couple of years, so it's the same for that electric hyperbike thing for the next generation down... None of this stuff, including the desire to return to an idealised era of nationalisation (or even nation-states), reflects what's happening in the real world.
What's happening is software. Everything is turning into software. Things become ideas, with the help of software. Things are linked and sold and bought and leased, using software. Software is the vital link.
To use a very plain analogy - suppose you want to build a cabin in the woods. You have to buy the woods, get planning permission, get an architect to draw up compliant plans, get builders to build it to a regulated standard, get utilities to reach the property, get it registered with the local authority, etc. There are a lot of things you need to do. Realistically, this can't be achieved by everyone - there are too many people. It isn't sustainable. There isn't enough land. It's environmentally damaging, etc. So, some people will get emotional and freak out. Who cares?
Human beings have abundant creativity. They can create other things in the domain of software. They can try out different ideas without having any outlay or capital at all, in some cases, with the help of software. They can find new ways to communicate with others. They can create art. And, yes, they can create a cabin in the woods, in VR. This is an avenue of opportunity for clever young people. It doesn't replace the physical world - it just adds value to it. It can even be a layer on top of it. And they don't need any paymaster or patronage: we're back in a true and pure era of "build it and they will come".
Whether we like it or not, this is the new reality, and it's here. It doesn't mean people will be plugged into something against their will. It just means that physical artefacts or places get assigned a memory address in cyberspace, so that a seamless integration takes place. This is exactly like writing a grammar. Imagine you invent a language. You have to invent names for things (nouns), and then a protocol for coherence between them. The names need not correspond to underlying physical realities, but the names can be proper names, with a capital letter, i.e. owned. It's like that. Lexicon and grammar.
In the short-to-immediate term, what it means for car ownership is that people with no alternative in the form of public transport will lease:
https://www.thedrive.com/news/43329/toyota-made-its-key-fob-remote-start-into-a-subscription-service
This is an exploit, in the exact same vein as the BSA or the electric hyperbike. All commercial enterprise is. People want something new and cool. How many people pay outright for a new Iphone? This stuff is here and it's happening. Yes, people also want ownership, and pride of ownership, and to create an id using things they own, whether they created them or bought them. But the ownership and personality side of things will all be done in the realm of software. Choose the colour of your dashboard lights, just as you choose your avatar. Nothing new.
In a sense it's wise to look for where the downside might be. But there are significant upsides, too. For example, not many of us have flown an aircraft, and even fewer a fighter jet. But we will definitely enjoy an improved synthetic/mimetic experience of one, in the future. And I don't think it's a matter of shame when anything as harmless as that improves your quality of life. To extend this downwards, what it means is that people in the future may feel that they have experienced all the great cars and bikes of the past, even if they haven't. If that's what they want. And they can even own them. Plus Ford could re-release the XR3i, in digital, and sell it to them. Just an example. |
Your going to try and flog me the NFT of my thread next  |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 2 years, 124 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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