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MT10 Generator Cover Removal - Help

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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: MT10 Generator Cover Removal - Help Reply with quote

She wiggles and I've tugged and tugged and wiggled and wiggled but she won't come free.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU5E5hvyT1k

Is there something behind that's holding/latching onto it?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

There seems to be a bolt at the bottom still...
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're video is shit, btw. Camera is moving all over the place. How about a photo so the dog can see the rabbit.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, it's not attached to anything though. As you can see the case took a whack, I've prised a lot of it away snapping it away small pieces from the rest of the case bit by bit. 99.999% sure that bolt isn't the culprit. Because the bolt is bent and the head is fucked i can't remove it completely so was hoping to get the cover off first and then take a pair of pliers to it or it'll probably come out by hand as it's loose in there, but because it's bent it fouls on the side of the cover when you try to rotate it.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 21:50 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You're video is shit, btw. Camera is moving all over the place. How about a photo so the dog can see the rabbit.


LOL ok...
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:53 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
but because it's bent it fouls on the side of the cover when you try to rotate it.


And thats why it's keeping the oil pump cover in place.

Tap it gently with a hammer to straighten it a bit and then take it out
.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
TravisBickle wrote:
but because it's bent it fouls on the side of the cover when you try to rotate it.


And thats why it's keeping the oil pump cover in place.

Tap it gently with a hammer to straighten it a bit and then take it out
.


I could be wrong but I'm near certain it's nothing to do with that one remaining bolt. As you can see from the photos there isn't anything left of thee casing surrounding the bolt for it to be obstructing the removal of the cover.

Another attempt at a video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFiV_hNhNzw

And some photos:

https://i.ibb.co/Jyd9HW8/20211112-205339.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/ZS2QTvp/20211112-205343.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/qpvZrKX/20211112-205348.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/34f5YCD/20211112-205357.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/jZLG1fW/20211112-205408.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/N2fM5zk/20211112-205411.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/Gv1xwx0/20211112-205416.jpg
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a couple of dowls that locate it. You need to wriggle it off.

https://www.fowlersparts.co.uk/parts/5950718/mt10/crankcase-cover-1

Part no 5s
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:21 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Held on by dowels, a stuck gasket and strong magnetism. There might be two or three tabs on the edge of the cover with which to pull (or carefully prise?) the cover off. When I did this job on my R1 I hit it round the edge with a rubber mallet to break the seal but it looks like yours is already loose. Grab those tabs and tug. Watch your fingers when you put it back on.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's the cover for the oil pump and ali isn't usually magnetic, bit the dowls will cause the issue.

I'd just take a prybar to it but then I'm not a butcher where delicate faces are concerned. I'd leave the plastic cover on....
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
ali isn't usually magnetic, bit the dowls will cause the issue.

That’s a good point, but on my bike the generator cover (is that what we have here?) was definitely magnetic. It didn’t feel heavy, so maybe aluminium alloys are magnetic? Or is has a steel insert for some reason? I didn’t notice the magnetism until I held it up to the casing when reinstalling and it nearly leapt out of my hands. Still, Travis’ cover seems loose so yes, maybe the dowels are snagging it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:55 - 12 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not actually a cover for the oil pump, thats on the other side Embarassed

The way to tell is if a magnet sticks to it. They don't on mine but Triumph, not necessarily the same alloy.
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 02:44 - 13 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just pull, the magnets are holding it in place.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 04:56 - 13 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it wasn't the dowels that was causing the problem. I had already removed one with part of the broken off casing and the other had been broken loose.

Got to the bottom of it. It WAS magnetism that was causing my issues. The centre piece of the generator actually bolts to the inside of the cover, so when you put the cover on, the centre piece slides inside the outer rim of the generator, if you get what I mean. My problem was I thought I would be able to just keep wiggling it outwards bit by bit, millimetre by millimetre. Problem being every time I made the slightest bit of progress and then let go of the cover, the magnetism just drew it back in place again. So yeah, just required a bit of persistence, wiggling and giving a good old hefty tug with both hands (I don't think it was coming out entirely straight and true as it was fucked from the accident, which I don't think helped getting it released and getting the centre piece out of the middle at a 100% straight angle as the cover was fucked and kinda coming away at a slight angle).

Thanks to everyone! Every day is a school day!
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 10:01 - 14 Nov 2021    Post subject: T Reply with quote

That's the beauty of CMSNL and fowler's parts exploded views !

They will show you what's under a cover, where the dowels are etc. etc. etc..

A no brainers not to use that really informative and free resource.

You will know better for next time.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:52 - 14 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late to the party but I was going to say it's magnetism holding it on.

The aluminium cover itself is not magnetic but the other pieces bolted onto it on the inside definitely are (the stator being one of them).

I changed the magneto, stator and cover on my ER6F and my top-tip t my past self would be to be super careful with the alignment on the way back in because the magneto is going to try and pull the stator onto it directly while you are trying to align the dowels and push it in.

This caused me to tear the gasket as I didn't think the cover would get pulled so hard. I had two so it wasn't a problem in the end.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 14 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

You do learn new things because this is something I've never come across before.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 14 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually I may have been wrong. Crying or Very sad I think on my Yamaha the cover might not have been magnetic because (unlike some others) that’s all it is, just a cover. It would have been the flywheel that seemed stuck, and also tried to leap forward when reinstalling. Ah, I can’t remember. But magnetism, yeah. Embarassed Or dowels…
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 21:54 - 14 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You do learn new things because this is something I've never come across before.


Me too. Although I'm sure you have far more experience than me as I only got into biking a few years ago and have only ever taken a handful of engine side covers off, but yeah never come across anything like this myself either.

In case you were curious:

https://i.ibb.co/chfZsJJ/20211114-204141.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/hfrGYM4/20211114-204147.jpg



Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
I changed the magneto, stator and cover on my ER6F and my top-tip t my past self would be to be super careful with the alignment on the way back in because the magneto is going to try and pull the stator onto it directly while you are trying to align the dowels and push it in.

This caused me to tear the gasket as I didn't think the cover would get pulled so hard. I had two so it wasn't a problem in the end.


Thanks for the tip, I'll bear this in mind before putting the new cover back on (I wrecked one of the dowels removing the cover so still waiting for some new dowels and bolts and stuff to arrive from Fowlers).

Which order would you put it all back together? Putting the dowels into the bike first, then gasket over the dowels, then put the cover on over the top of the dowels?

Or other way round putting the dowels into the new side cover and the gasket over the top on the side cover then sliding the new cover onto the bike with the dowels in place in the side cover?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 15 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mate that stator has taken some damage, you can see shards of it all over the magneto. I can't really tell from the picture, but is the magneto (flywheel) also damaged?

Like the guys told me when I had the exact same problem (smashed generator cover) on my ER6-F the last thing you want is bits of magnet and magnetic swarf sloshing around inside your engine when you put the cover back on.

Might want to consider changing the stator and flywheel at the same time since you're already taking it off for a new cover anyway.

Regarding the order, I would go:

- Clean mating face on engine,
- Apply gasket sealant to mating face on engine,
- Carefully place gasket and push down to properly seat and wipe excess sealant pushed out the sides,
- Apply gasket sealant to dry face of the gasket,
- Place dowel pins into engine side,
- Carefully align cover and stator and slowly allow placement on the dowels and slowly seat onto gasket,
- Replace bolts, torque to correct setting per manual,
- Wipe away excess sealant,
- Connect leads,
- Replace oil filter,
- Fill with oil,
- Test that it works.
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bikenut
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 15 Nov 2021    Post subject: The Reply with quote

Some guide pins may be of use, basically long enough pins made from threaded rod same size and pitch as the case screws, screwed into 2 holes diagonally opposite to align the casing at a distance. Just make sure you can unscrew them when at least 2 casing screws are in place.

Avoid silicon sealer, sealer in a threaded hole can/will burst the hole. Be warned. You know how to make a gasket ? Those self centering wood drills with a center spike are handy...
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Islander
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 15 Nov 2021    Post subject: Re: The Reply with quote

bikenut wrote:
Some guide pins may be of use, basically long enough pins made from threaded rod same size and pitch as the case screws, screwed into 2 holes diagonally opposite to align the casing at a distance. Just make sure you can unscrew them when at least 2 casing screws are in place.

Avoid silicon sealer, sealer in a threaded hole can/will burst the hole. Be warned. You know how to make a gasket ? Those self centering wood drills with a center spike are handy...


There's absolutely nothing wrong with using a silicone based sealant like 3 bond. If it's applied properly following the manufacturer's instructions it's every bit as good as a gasket. Yamaha use it and so do Ducati. No doubt other manufacturers do too.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 02:27 - 16 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Mate that stator has taken some damage, you can see shards of it all over the magneto. I can't really tell from the picture, but is the magneto (flywheel) also damaged?

Like the guys told me when I had the exact same problem (smashed generator cover) on my ER6-F the last thing you want is bits of magnet and magnetic swarf sloshing around inside your engine when you put the cover back on.

Might want to consider changing the stator and flywheel at the same time since you're already taking it off for a new cover anyway.


Thanks I'll look into it!

I just watched this and the guy said no sealant is required.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRXNM3ygvpk

Thoughts? Should I use sealant in conjunction with the gasket or not?
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 08:39 - 16 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fucks sake stop buying shit from Copart.

It’s only there because the trade have decided it’s not worth doing.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 14:54 - 16 Nov 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:


Thoughts? Should I use sealant in conjunction with the gasket or not?


You use gasket OR sealant not both. You can smear the gasket with grease to help it seal if you want to.
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