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om15
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PostPosted: 10:37 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: BSA Goldstar Reply with quote

This looks interesting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f52zuJSesiM&ab_channel=TheClassicMotorcycleChannel
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:20 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pretty much setting off where they finished in 1970.

That is one behemoth of a cylinder head!
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 13:46 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

45bhp doesnt sound overly exciting. looks nice though.
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Lone-Wolf
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PostPosted: 14:16 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wotcha.

Looks very B33 - ish

The killer will be the price. Will it be able to compete with Royal Enfield ?

EDIT

My B33 for comparison.

https://www.moonshiners.org.uk/LWMEimages/B33-2016-5.jpg
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Last edited by Lone-Wolf on 06:30 - 04 Dec 2021; edited 1 time in total
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:05 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lone-Wolf wrote:
Wotcha.

Looks very B33 - ish

The killer will be the price. Will it be able to compete with Royal Enfield ?


Totally agree on this point and imho I can't see the BSA being equal to or less than the cost of the Royal Enfield.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, so another classic British name bought by an Indian company. I'd imagine they'll price themselves between RE and Triumph.
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om15
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interview with the boss, his last words are "it will be sensibly priced"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDFZAp4bR_4&ab_channel=TheClassicMotorcycleChannel
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Bloggsy
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice looking bike , but I prefer my MT-09
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om15
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PostPosted: 17:15 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big heavy bike for only 45 BHP, same as the Interceptor, I'm sure it will sell well if the price is right.
I did like my Interceptor but not enough to keep it, I will be interested to see the BSA in the flesh, but no plans to buy one, but I think that many will.

My first Hinkley Triumph (Trident 900) was really well made and a good value for money bike, I had a further 4 Triumphs over 20 years, the last one was the Street Twin which was an expensive disappointment, it will be interesting to see if Royal Enfield can keep the prices down and if the new BSA can produce a quality reliable low cost bike
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Robby
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

If they can keep the price at or under £6k, it will sell. Provides (very) classic styling for less than the interceptor. Performance is less, but who cares, performance on both of them is technically shit and not the selling point.

No good reason for the price to be high, there's nothing on the bike that look expensive, just needs enough volume produced.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 03 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks the part
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
If they can keep the price at or under £6k, it will sell. Provides (very) classic styling for less than the interceptor. Performance is less, but who cares, performance on both of them is technically shit and not the selling point.

No good reason for the price to be high, there's nothing on the bike that look expensive, just needs enough volume produced.


Isn't this where, fundamentally, India > China?

Spending the money on design. Designing something reasonable and easy on the eye. Something not entirely ambitious but under stressed and reliable.

Let us be clear: we here are at the sharp end of how shall I say... discerning but even so an offering like the Interceptor has still sold like hot-cakes and is an exemplar in how to get it right Thinking
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 02:18 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walk before you try to run. Make a solid, reliable bike that doesn't jump through hoops but will sell acceptably well. Once you've shown you can make a serviceable motorbike, then go for the spinning rims. It's what Triumph did right and Norton did wrong.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks great but 45bhp is a bit naff. I'd love a retro styled bike that has somewhere near the power of modern machines, but it seems like most manufacturers only care about making them look old. To me it just makes no practical sense to buy something like this over something modern.

I did watch an interview where the owner said he wants to put factories in Britain and he seemed genuine about keeping the British heritage.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
It looks great but 45bhp is a bit naff.


Well that's the A2 category. But the tax! If they'd gone for a 599cc single and squeezed in 45bhp it'd only be £69* but maybe that's only in the UK?

Even I feel a bit hard done by paying £27 for an extra 89cc on my XSR Smile

*nice!
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om15
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do like it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg3jBQuwes8&ab_channel=TheClassicMotorcycleChannel
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 15:46 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not an engineer, but I wonder if it's possible to get much more than about 50hp from a normally aspirated 4-stroke big single. It's an absolutely huge single. I'd be surprised if they could. This one's water-cooled, so they can get the clearances closer, and it's fuel injected, so they can get near-perfect fueling. All that's left after that is to make that piston jump up and down fast enough to make some hp, and that's limited by the fact that it's a single. The old Japanese twins with 360 crank had a shorter stroke to let them rev higher than British bikes. I haven't been able to find bore and stroke info for this new BSA, but I note that they say it's smooth through the rev range, so it's probably a bit closer to square than the long stroking originals.
However, unlike the old days, they would have had to find a way to abide by very strict emissions and noise regs (it's Euro 5). I note the size of that exhaust - very, very well done. They've managed to hide what I presume is a length of silencer going almost all the way through the headers. By contrast, HD's 2022 lineup has some awful-looking monster exhausts as standard, for compliance - shameful enough that it's hard to find promo pics of them.

Obviously doesn't look anywhere near as proportionate as the originals, but it's faithful enough, and nothing about it is disproportionate. It has nicer proportions than the Triumph modern retros (IMO), and its rear is nicer than the new Enfields. I doubt the riding experience would be as raw and snappy as vintage bikes - the old enduro bike with slide throttle feeling - but then that's probably a tall order for a new road bike anyway.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:
To me it just makes no practical sense to buy something like this over something modern.

Agree that it makes no practical sense, but for those of us old enough to remember when bikes like these ruled the road, there is a strong attachment to style.
Do you consider the Bonneville to be a modern bike? How about the Speed Twin, CB1000, or XSR900? There is a big market for retro. Performance isn't everything.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
I'm not an engineer, but I wonder if it's possible to get much more than about 50hp from a normally aspirated 4-stroke big single.

The Husqvarna 701 is rated at 75 hp.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 04 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh well. If it's made after 1990 it's like it doesn't exist, to me. Invisibility cloaking tech - top secret. Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:40 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Bhud wrote:
I'm not an engineer, but I wonder if it's possible to get much more than about 50hp from a normally aspirated 4-stroke big single.

The Husqvarna 701 is rated at 75 hp.


With a service interval measured in hours?

Comparable Japanese motors, XTZ660 claims 47bhp, DR 43bhp. WR450 is pushing 60.

But I doubt the BSA will be an over-square motor so rev speed will be limited.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 01:22 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Ayrton wrote:
To me it just makes no practical sense to buy something like this over something modern.

Agree that it makes no practical sense, but for those of us old enough to remember when bikes like these ruled the road, there is a strong attachment to style.
Do you consider the Bonneville to be a modern bike? How about the Speed Twin, CB1000, or XSR900? There is a big market for retro. Performance isn't everything.

I would say those are modern bikes, but that all have more power than the BSA does. I guess I wouldn't call the BSA not modern, but that's hardly the performance you expect from a 650 in todays world. Maybe the rest of the bike will make up for it, but to me it gives the impression that they only care about the looks.

The guy in om15's video did say it's de-tuned so hopefully we might see a more powerful version too.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ayrton wrote:

I would say those are modern bikes, but that all have more power than the BSA does. I guess I wouldn't call the BSA not modern, but that's hardly the performance you expect from a 650 in todays world.


As above, 40-50bhp is pretty standard for a 650 single. It's pretty much what you're getting from the likes of the new CB500 too.
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I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, it's pretty much what I would expect. It's not at all slow for a bike in its class.

At the end of the day, the single cylinder 4-stroke engine is a very old technology that's most likely undergone all of the improvements and refinements it will ever see. Water cooling - check. Overhead cam - check. Balancing/reciprocating mass - check. 4 valve head - check. There will be engineering-based reasons why other 650 singles of the past and present average out at about 50hp. It's clearly a set of design considerations that allow compromises to work. I ride a 44hp machine quite often (well, twice a week), and I wouldn't say it's slow. It's just not ideal for dual carriageways and motorways. But it does help that it's very light.

A Husky 701 is lot sharper and more specialised than this BSA. It's either a wheelie machine or an off-road bike for very keen off-road enthusiasts. It might also be good on the road, but with 72Nm of torque and 75hp, it's probably not ideal for the majority of riding conditions we get over here. You will get a lot more Moto Madness style crash videos featuring the 701 than the BSA. I'm a big fan of the Yamaha 660 single, and even that requires a lot more concentration and finesse in certain conditions (hairpin bend on a slippery mountain road comes to mind) than the 80s equivalents with half the power output.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 05 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
It might also be good on the road, but with 72Nm of torque and 75hp, it's probably not ideal for the majority of riding conditions we get over here.


That's similar numbers to my XSR and while it's a cheeky little engine it's hardly what I'd call unmanageable. Are big singles dramatically different?
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