Help & FAQs    Search BCF    Members    Groups    Events Calendar
Resend my activation email : Register : Log in 
BCF: Bike Chat Forums


Yeah this actually looks decent....

 Reply to topic
Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours
View previous topic : View next topic  
Author Message

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 09:04 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Yeah this actually looks decent.... Reply with quote
https://www.visordown.com/news/new-bikes/damon-motorcycles-charging-europe-hypersport-and-hyperfighter

Definitely up there with Panigale R money for the top end, but "sensible" pricing for the normal models... Don't think it looks too bad for an electric bike.
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
PostPosted: 09:39 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's like they have designed it to look a bit like an ICE power unit. I would say it's the best looking electric bike I have seen and it's specs are impressive but so is the price. Shocked

The actual real world usage specs for the cheap(er) models would be interesting bearing in mind even £13 grand is getting up to premium spec ICE bikes.

Would I buy one? no. Would I buy one if I was rich and money no object, still no but someone will.

All that said, it's cheap step through electric mopeds/125 class that are needed for any world eco savings, the reason for electric vehicles, not one or two hyper bikes.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Fat Angry Scotsman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jan 2021
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:14 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I really like the look of it. The price is high but then all electric vehicles are priced highly.

I don't think I will be buying an electric bike anytime soon though as unlike how I feel about electric cars, I think a bit part of the biking experience is actually the noise, the feeling, the smells, etc of riding one with an engine. I think that most people ride a motorcycle over driving a car because they enjoy the experience: it's much more visceral and engaging than driving around your mobile living room. To me electric bikes seem far too clinical and gentrified as they're so quiet. For that reason I will keep buying ICE bikes until they are banned from sale.

I am actually very surprised Tesla actually hasn't looked at bikes yet. The reason they would do well isn't because it's Tesla, it's because Tesla has the largest and best charger network by far. If you can supercharge a Model 3 from 20% to 80% in roughly 15 minutes then imagine how fast you could supercharge a motorbike with a significantly smaller battery.

I think I will be getting a Tesla as my next car soon. Just waiting to do it through the company as a company car since benefit-in-kind is so low on electric cars. The reason I am choosing a Tesla is because where I stay I can't plug it in overnight and I can't put a destination charging point at my workplace as the car park is communal and the developer who owns the Trade Park won't allow us to reserve spaces despite us literally using 40% of all the units in the park and being their biggest renter (they are very nonchalant yet restrictive: the reason why as soon as our lease is expiring we will be moving elsewhere). So the only option open to me is supercharging at the local supercharger. I don't mind that at all, it's close by and only takes 15 minutes to go from 20% to 80% and the costs will be picked up by the company.

A guy I used to work with already has a Tesla and he says that depending on the time of day, how many other Teslas are using the supercharger and the site itself the cost currently varies between £12 to £18 to go up to 80%.
____________________
PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zen Dog
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:12 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
All that said, it's cheap step through electric mopeds/125 class that are needed for any world eco savings, the reason for electric vehicles, not one or two hyper bikes.


All the bike manufacturers seem to have the same attitude of "lets develop our own completely bespoke electric drivetrain, and aim for the high end to recoup our costs".

But what I wish Honda/Yamaha/someone big, would do, is bolt together a load of off the shelf electric drivetrain components, make a frame and use the parts bin for everything else, and sell on volume. These kind of bikes already exist, but they're all no-name chinese manufacturers and I think the lack of dealer network/backup is putting people off. If someone big with an extensive dealer network did it, that wouldn't be a worry.

I really think there's untapped potential for an electric c90. But then if the companies thought it would make money I'm sure they'd be doing it. Confused
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 11:27 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
All that said, it's cheap step through electric mopeds/125 class that are needed for any world eco savings, the reason for electric vehicles, not one or two hyper bikes.


All the bike manufacturers seem to have the same attitude of "lets develop our own completely bespoke electric drivetrain, and aim for the high end to recoup our costs".

But what I wish Honda/Yamaha/someone big, would do, is bolt together a load of off the shelf electric drivetrain components, make a frame and use the parts bin for everything else, and sell on volume. These kind of bikes already exist, but they're all no-name chinese manufacturers and I think the lack of dealer network/backup is putting people off. If someone big with an extensive dealer network did it, that wouldn't be a worry.

I really think there's untapped potential for an electric c90. But then if the companies thought it would make money I'm sure they'd be doing it. Confused


It might start happening as new laws come in forcing new houses to have electric charging points etc. They're probably aware most normal motorcyclists aren't that bothered about EVs as they want the full "experience" of riding a bike and that includes ICE and everything that goes along with it.
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:23 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
100 foot pounds and 200+ miles range would be a great selling combination for me.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

droog
Spanner Monkey



Joined: 03 Dec 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:45 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Damon looks excellent, like a proper sportsbike, and the performance specs in terms of speed and range are superb - Very impressive.

I'll stick with petrol for as long as it's practical, but if/when the time comes to 'transition' (oooh, err Mr. Green ) I would have no problem riding an electric bike if they look and perform like this.

If a relatively small company I never heard of can produce a bike like this, then I'm wondering what stage of development the larger Japanese and European manufacturers have reached in terms of electric motorcycles?
____________________
Even more boring in real life . . .
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Zen Dog
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 14:57 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
It might start happening as new laws come in forcing new houses to have electric charging points etc.


Is that happening? I am curious what the plan is (assuming there is one with the current muppets in charge) for charging electric vehicles at home if you don't have a driveway. 90% of houses where I live are terraced and parking is on the street. I remember someone telling me that you couldn't have a box on the side of your house to charge a car/bike on the street, because the cables would be stretched over the pavement, which I can see is a problem. But what's the solution?
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Fat Angry Scotsman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jan 2021
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:10 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
It might start happening as new laws come in forcing new houses to have electric charging points etc.


Is that happening? I am curious what the plan is (assuming there is one with the current muppets in charge) for charging electric vehicles at home if you don't have a driveway. 90% of houses where I live are terraced and parking is on the street. I remember someone telling me that you couldn't have a box on the side of your house to charge a car/bike on the street, because the cables would be stretched over the pavement, which I can see is a problem. But what's the solution?


The way I see it, in order of convenience:

1. Driveway placed charging for your vehicle at home (not possible for everyone),
2. Roadside (at kerb) outside your home (would require changes to laws and effort by local authorities, etc),
3. Destination charging at venues, workplaces, etc (already being implemented more and more but slowly),
4. Dedicated charging stations for fast charging like Tesla superchargers (currently viable but would become strained if there was a huge uptake in electric car users).
____________________
PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:45 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

The way I see it, in order of convenience:

1. Driveway placed charging for your vehicle at home (not possible for everyone),
2. Roadside (at kerb) outside your home (would require changes to laws and effort by local authorities, etc),
3. Destination charging at venues, workplaces, etc (already being implemented more and more but slowly),
4. Dedicated charging stations for fast charging like Tesla superchargers (currently viable but would become strained if there was a huge uptake in electric car users).


1 - OK
2 - Would need a huge attitude change in practice. The space outside your house being designated for you only and allowing you to have a cable laid under the pavement (not likely) or charging points at every street parking bay. Laughing Laughing chortle . They'll never allow wandering leads to be left out overnight across pavements even with anti trip covers on them. It's asking for troube.
3 - Possible if you work on an industrial estate or something. Not going to happen for people in many service industies or the retired/out of work.
4 - Can other cars use Tesla stations or are they proprietry?I'm not sure but aren't there 3 different charging systems for cars at the moment not including home systems.

Maybe by 2030 it will all be sorted, ot more likely it gets pushed back and hybrids are allowed for much longer.

Who knows. At least with a bike you can either wheel it into the hall if you have no garage or hopefully be able to take the battery into the house to charge overnight.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Fat Angry Scotsman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jan 2021
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:34 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:

1 - OK
2 - Would need a huge attitude change in practice. The space outside your house being designated for you only and allowing you to have a cable laid under the pavement (not likely) or charging points at every street parking bay. Laughing Laughing chortle . They'll never allow wandering leads to be left out overnight across pavements even with anti trip covers on them. It's asking for troube.
3 - Possible if you work on an industrial estate or something. Not going to happen for people in many service industies or the retired/out of work.
4 - Can other cars use Tesla stations or are they proprietry?I'm not sure but aren't there 3 different charging systems for cars at the moment not including home systems.

Maybe by 2030 it will all be sorted, ot more likely it gets pushed back and hybrids are allowed for much longer.

Who knows. At least with a bike you can either wheel it into the hall if you have no garage or hopefully be able to take the battery into the house to charge overnight.


Regarding (2) they would probably only be put literally at the kerbside literally as close to the kerb as possible so there is no trailing cable over the pathway and they would probably be owned by the local authority and open to anyone for use (pay-as-you-go using contactless payment). Contrary to popular belief, you don't own the bit of road you park on beside the pavement outside your house, so yes this would need a massive shift in attitudes across the board and is only feasible on pavements wide enough to allow unencumbered access past the rear of the charging points and front boundary of the property behind it.

(3) I agree, but that won't stop it happening where possible in the fullness of time.

(4) Tesla are forced to use the standardised plug in the UK and EU which work on all charging points, the same is true in reverse by every other manufacturer. However, they don't have to let non-Tesla owners use their superchargers (and don't). So a Tesla owner can charge anywhere in the UK but non-Tesla owners cannot use the Tesla Supercharger network.

I doubt it will even be close to sorted for 2030, it's a shit show and will be way further down the line than that before it's all-electric everywhere. Hybrids will be around for a long time in my opinion.
____________________
PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

jeffyjeff
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 May 2020
Karma :
PostPosted: 16:48 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
I doubt it will even be close to sorted for 2030, it's a shit show and will be way further down the line than that before it's all-electric everywhere.

Don't underestimate how fast the infrastructure can change once people realize they can make money off it. May not be sorted by 2030, but I think well on the way, if not close. Look how far Tesla has come in 15 years. May not be all-electric everywhere, but electric is available pretty much everywhere.
____________________
History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Zen Dog
World Chat Champion



Joined: 11 Aug 2004
Karma :
PostPosted: 19:36 - 13 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:

Regarding (2) they would probably only be put literally at the kerbside literally as close to the kerb as possible so there is no trailing cable over the pathway and they would probably be owned by the local authority and open to anyone for use (pay-as-you-go using contactless payment). Contrary to popular belief, you don't own the bit of road you park on beside the pavement outside your house


Loads of people in my street seem to think the public road outside the house is theirs. One woman ended up in court because someone parked in "her spot" and she put their windscreen through with a golf club. Laughing This is despite most people having more than one vehicle (one guy has 3 cars, a van, and a bike) even though there's only basically space outside each house for one, and there being at least 4 works vans taking up space every night.

I think if you offered everyone in my street individual designated parking they'd bite your hand off. Then a week after it was implemented they'd being going nuts that they couldn't park in anyone else's. I still think that that option, or council owned pay as you go chargers on every street, is what will have to eventually happen though, in order to make mass electric vehicles a viable proposition.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
PostPosted: 10:46 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The only reason I suggested designated parking outside each home is that the council/gov could then lay the costs on the home owner rather than them. If you want a charging point, you pay for it.

If councils/gov put charging points in and charge for the electric and to make the costs back, your electric car aint going to be that cheap to run.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:09 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


If councils/gov put charging points in and charge for the electric and to make the costs back, your electric car aint going to be that cheap to run.


Only if you think of gov/councils as companies. They aren't, they exist to provide public services.

The cost of putting in the charge point is likely to be met through a central gov grant (possibly combined with a mandate to install a certain number). So the money comes out of general taxation, and some of it through council tax.

The task of then maintaining that charge point and providing electricity will be contracted out to one of the charging providers, who will charge whatever they charge. Typically a bit more than a home tarriff for a 7kw street charger, but a lot less than a motorway fast charger.

It would need to be a serious price hike to get anywhere near the cost of filling up a petrol car. For a straight price comparison, the price of charging an electric car at home is comparable to running a petrol car that does 150mpg.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Polarbear
Super Spammer



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:28 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


If councils/gov put charging points in and charge for the electric and to make the costs back, your electric car aint going to be that cheap to run.


Only if you think of gov/councils as companies. They aren't, they exist to provide public services.

The cost of putting in the charge point is likely to be met through a central gov grant (possibly combined with a mandate to install a certain number). So the money comes out of general taxation, and some of it through council tax.

The task of then maintaining that charge point and providing electricity will be contracted out to one of the charging providers, who will charge whatever they charge. Typically a bit more than a home tarriff for a 7kw street charger, but a lot less than a motorway fast charger.

It would need to be a serious price hike to get anywhere near the cost of filling up a petrol car. For a straight price comparison, the price of charging an electric car at home is comparable to running a petrol car that does 150mpg.


I accept that at present it is stupidy cheaper to run an EV. I'm also not convinced the councils and gov won't take their pound of flesh from roadside chargers.

Also I do wonder what will happen when tax revenue from ICE fuels starts to drop as well. I can certainly see the gov slapping a tax on electricity supplied to bollards when that happens. How that will work in houses though unless there are smart meters on home charging points? Does anyone know if that is done or possible?
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail You must be logged in to rate posts

xX-Alex-Xx
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Sep 2019
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:33 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


Also I do wonder what will happen when tax revenue from ICE fuels starts to drop as well. I can certainly see the gov slapping a tax on electricity supplied to bollards when that happens.


Pay per mile. There'll be a shitload of uproar when it comes in especially from privacy advocates, but it'll be implemented regardless and people will get used it it within a week (or forget about it when the latest political scandal for that week hits the news).
____________________
DILLIGAF
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 12:54 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pay by mile or a radically different system of road tax is more likely.

Taxing electricity going into vehicles is far more tricky, and enforcement would be impossible. Even smart meters don't recognise individual devices, just overall load. The meter isn't going to know if that load came from a car being plugged in, or just from a load of electric heaters being turned on.

Added to that, it's a lot easier to make your own electricity than it is to make your own petrol. Lots of home chargers even have settings to only charge direct from solar panels.

A technological solution would be possible, but would require co-operation between smart meters, utility companies, and all vehicle manufacturers. Not going to happen in the short term, it's hardly a vote winner.

I would expect to see a combination of stealthier taxes to fill the hole. A bit more insurance premium tax, increase the VAT on electricity, higher road tax, and a load of local congestion charging schemes.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Fat Angry Scotsman
World Chat Champion



Joined: 12 Jan 2021
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:14 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Robby wrote:
I would expect to see a combination of stealthier taxes to fill the hole. A bit more insurance premium tax, increase the VAT on electricity, higher road tax, and a load of local congestion charging schemes.


I don't see it being a pay-per-mile system put in place as that would just mean everyone drives way less, again reducing tax revenue. You'll also have the papers filled with poor people complaining that they don't have alternative methods of commuting and pay-per-mile disproportionately affects the lower classes, vulnerable, disabled, etc. Rolling Eyes

I agree with you that it will be a load of stealth taxes that make up the difference along with a massive hike to vehicle excise duty where you'll find it gets set at the vehicles' purchase value as opposed to anything else: then Joe Public will get behind it because it's taxing the rich amirite? Rolling Eyes
____________________
PRESENT: 2018 BMW S1000XR SE Sport.
PAST: 2009 Kawasaki ER-6F. 2021 Zontes ZT-125U.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Pete.
Super Spammer



Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Karma :
PostPosted: 13:22 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
This has all already happened elsewhere in the world:

https://thedriven.io/2020/01/20/norway-horrified-as-new-rates-make-ev-charging-prices-higher-than-petrol/
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good Very Happy
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website You must be logged in to rate posts

Ayrton
World Chat Champion



Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Karma :
PostPosted: 15:26 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sceptical of that range considering all of Zero's bikes do naff all unless you are in the city. On their website they have a few selections of different route examples but next to it is "incomparable 200 mile total range gets you there and back with only the breaks you'd take anyway.". Makes me think they are including charging stops in the bikes range Laughing . That's only the top spec bike too, the lowest version only has a 108 mile range, but is actually not a bad price.
https://damon.com/hypersport
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:41 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pete. wrote:
This has all already happened elsewhere in the world:

https://thedriven.io/2020/01/20/norway-horrified-as-new-rates-make-ev-charging-prices-higher-than-petrol/


That appears to only be for one particular brand of motorway-type fast chargers, where they're going from a flat rate to charge to a price per kwh. We have the same thing here, fast chargers cost more (although still a lot less than petrol). They are expensive things with very thick cables, about to shove 50kw or more into a car. For reference, a home charge point is 7.2kw and a 3-pin plug is about 3kw.
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts

Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
Karma :
PostPosted: 20:48 - 14 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ayrton wrote:
I'm sceptical of that range


Looks like it has a 20kwh battery. That would be enough for a 100 miles driving normally in a car, so a range of 200 miles riding normally could be possible.

You certainly wouldn't get 200 miles at 100mph though.

The 60-mile zeros have a 7kwh battery, so the energy consumption is likely to be similar
 Back to top
View user's profile Send private message You must be logged in to rate posts
Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 3 years, 149 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
  Display posts from previous:   
This page may contain affiliate links, which means we may earn a small commission if a visitor clicks through and makes a purchase. By clicking on an affiliate link, you accept that third-party cookies will be set.

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Bike Chat Forums Index -> Biking News & Rumours All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
 You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

Read the Terms of Use! - Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group
 
Debug Mode: ON - Server: birks (www) - Page Generation Time: 0.14 Sec - Server Load: 4.72 - MySQL Queries: 14 - Page Size: 135.68 Kb