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The end of Johnson's lies and the sleaze?

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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 18:45 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
You do know that permanent secretaries have to be in close association with their minister?


Do not question the status quo. Rules can be made, but never removed

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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:

Ah, a political heavyweight! Fix it all for us would you? Laughing


I'm not the one saying all politics is worthless. Wink
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Val
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PostPosted: 19:20 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I ROFL now Laughing

Boris leading by example how to wear mask in the public transport

https://i.imgur.com/2CoCI4u.jpg
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Where's that photo from?
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 19:26 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
I ROFL now Laughing

Boris leading by example how to wear mask in the public transport

https://i.imgur.com/2CoCI4u.jpg
Looks like he's got a glass in his hand from here. Difficult to drink with a mask on.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:

Ah, a political heavyweight! Fix it all for us would you? Laughing


I'm not the one saying all politics is worthless. Wink


My point is you can have too much of it in your life. It should not pervade every aspect of living.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I take the whole Partygate thing with a pinch of salt. Those of us who have had to work in teams (bubbles) throughout the pandemic will have recognised the difficulty in obeying social distancing and masking while working, and then gathering for lunch and tea breaks. According to Robert Peston it’s customary for Westminster workers and journalists to pull out a bottle from the bottom desk drawer at the end of the day or week. We’re not allowed booze at work but I can see the team sharing cakes, etc. I don’t doubt that the opposition acted similarly but this is all about attacking the government, which admittedly needs to be sincere.

I fear I’m turning into a Tory sympathiser. Eh?
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I take the whole Partygate thing with a pinch of salt. Those of us who have had to work in teams (bubbles) throughout the pandemic will have recognised the difficulty in obeying social distancing and masking while working, and then gathering for lunch and tea breaks. According to Robert Peston it’s customary for Westminster workers and journalists to pull out a bottle from the bottom desk drawer at the end of the day or week. We’re not allowed booze at work but I can see the team sharing cakes, etc. I don’t doubt that the opposition acted similarly but this is all about attacking the government, which admittedly needs to be sincere.

I fear I’m turning into a Tory sympathiser. Eh?


Indeed. When things had been strressy in my workplace during lockdown we'd order in food, take a breather for half an hour and have a good old whinge. We were in the same workplace for 8 hours a day anyway so half a hour for pizza and blowing off steam hardly seems like an increased risk.

We also quickly re-instated communal tea breaks for the above reason and because everyone making their own was actually increasing traffic and general moving about the place more than one person going up and making a tray of hot drinks then everyone having a seat.
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Im-a-Ridah
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Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
I ROFL now Laughing

Boris leading by example how to wear mask in the public transport

https://i.imgur.com/2CoCI4u.jpg


Hypocrisy is a core value of being a Liberal Democrat
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Im-a-Ridah
World Chat Champion



Joined: 20 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 18 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
I take the whole Partygate thing with a pinch of salt. Those of us who have had to work in teams (bubbles) throughout the pandemic will have recognised the difficulty in obeying social distancing and masking while working, and then gathering for lunch and tea breaks. According to Robert Peston it’s customary for Westminster workers and journalists to pull out a bottle from the bottom desk drawer at the end of the day or week. We’re not allowed booze at work but I can see the team sharing cakes, etc. I don’t doubt that the opposition acted similarly but this is all about attacking the government, which admittedly needs to be sincere.

I fear I’m turning into a Tory sympathiser. Eh?


It's a risky strategy for Labour, eventually one of their parties will come to light. Given the younger demographic I think its more of an "when" not "if".

Personally I don't care if he had a "party" aka "ate lunch together", its not as if he was down at the local nightclub dancing until 3am. Also I wonder how many of those judging him in the media were at those huge gatherings in the London parks in 2020? Sky news are hardly ones to preach given Kay Burley and Beth Rigby had a birthday party!

I am however quite happy for people to complain about the actual failings of the government. Inflation going up, the RNLI taxi service bringing tens of thousands of economic migrants over from France, the Border Force giving out 4 star hotels and Dominos pizza, state surveillence completely out of control, almost unbounded intrusion into peoples lives by the state, cops and corporations, house prices unaffordble, Russians and Chinese running annual land grab competitions, gang and drug crime off the charts aided by their apologists, cops more interested in silencing those who point out the emperor has no clothes than stopping actual crimes, "woke" culture cracking down on political and social views enforcing a monocultural dictatorship, stripping of free speech except for those deemed worthy and so the list goes on. Oh yeah and he had a party at desk or something.
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Val
World Chat Champion



Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 19 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
Where's that photo from?


I found it on twitter:

https://twitter.com/JulienHoez/status/1471978904411856896
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Val
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PostPosted: 18:28 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Today Johnson managed to lie he didn't have known this is a party during his apology about the lie about the garden party at No. 10 on 20th of May.

Make of that what you want Laughing Laughing Laughing

Chris Bryant Labour MP at PMQ today:

Quote:
"What a shower of shenanigans! The PM excuse is the PM didn't spot he was at an event..."


On more serious note: No.10 gardens surely are literally full with police protection officers.

Surely now IPCO must investigate the said police protection officers that has been present at the party and have done nothing about it. The law was broken and the police protection officers present were complicit. Thinking
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Nobby the Bastard
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Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
Today Johnson managed to lie he didn't have known this is a party during his apology about the lie about the garden party at No. 10 on 20th of May.

Make of that what you want Laughing Laughing Laughing

Chris Bryant Labour MP at PMQ today:

Quote:
"What a shower of shenanigans! The PM excuse is the PM didn't spot he was at an event..."


On more serious note: No.10 gardens surely are literally full with police protection officers.

Surely now IPCO must investigate the said police protection officers that has been present at the party and have done nothing about it. The law was broken and the police protection officers present were complicit. Thinking


You do realise that the protection detail are to do that? And not investigate or prevent normal crimes?
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Pete.
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Joined: 22 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 19:44 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Personally I couldn't give a toss about them having some wind-down time after work. God knows they were burning the candle both ends under extreme pressure and huge responsibility and there's only so much you can suffer before you have to take a break or implode. obody's perfect and any idiot can look back at an event and point out the mistakes, whether thay have any sort of clue themselves or not.

Another thing, the people baying for blood (the new national pastime) because they have lost loved ones as if it's somehow the fault of the government.What can't be counted is the number of lives that were saved purely from the hard work, foresight and tough decisions of those who kept on slugging in the darkest times. Not on about just the top tier of government but all levels of civil and health service. So what if they took a bit of after-work time I think they all deserved it.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:48 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Same story as the one in December, and I still don’t care for the reasons expressed earlier.

The appalling opposition (press and political) will be insufferable if Boris goes.
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:


You do realise that the protection detail are to do that? And not investigate or prevent normal crimes?


You do realise there is no such thing as "normal" crime?

All police officers have a duty to prevent all crime. It is literally their job no matter where they are assigned.

All police officers take an oath when becoming a constable. The oath is:

“I, ... of ... do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law.”

Within that oath an officer swears “to the best of their power” that they will “prevent all offences against people” and “discharge all the duties thereof”.

I do not see anywhere in the oath something like

"I do swear if a proven liar and a slob like Johnson breaks the Covid19 law I will do nothing because that is a normal crime and we do only a special ones innit" Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:51 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
All police officers have a duty to prevent all crime.


Confirmation that no crime was committed then. Thumbs Up
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Val
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Joined: 03 Nov 2012
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Quote:
All police officers have a duty to prevent all crime.


Confirmation that no crime was committed then. Thumbs Up


Are you a ICPO officer now Jimbo?

I though only ICPO can confirm if a crime has been commited by a police officer not doing his job. I maybe be wrong.

High standards and all it is getting hard to me to follow it all Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
You know what I meant. Police were present, no cautions were given, no arrests made because no offence was being committed.
Wink
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Who fucking cares?

I'm sure a million people have died for some reason that no one gives a fuck about.

As long as Bulgarians aren't welcome in our happy clappy donation society I will be happy.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty sure that the police protection unit wouldn't bat an eylid if someone did coke with one of their charges in front of them....
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
All police officers have a duty to prevent all crime.


Not in the UK, they don't. Minor but important point.
Not defending Johnson - just pointing that out. The law has established that the police are not under any obligation, ever, to investigate or prosecute crime.

EDIT: that may no longer be true. They are under an obligation to investigate some crimes:

https://www.hja.net/expert-comments/blog/civil-liberties-human-rights/can-you-sue-the-police-if-they-fail-to-investigate-a-serious-crime/

If there's a practising criminal lawyer on here then feel free to jump in and illuminate our understanding.
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TaffyTDM
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Joined: 15 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:


Are you a ICPO officer now Jimbo?

I though only ICPO can confirm if a crime has been commited by a police officer not doing his job. I maybe be wrong.

High standards and all it is getting hard to me to follow it all Laughing


I assume you mean IOPC

As you have done so much research you will doubtless be aware that officers also have discretion. Nobby is right, for pretty obvious reasons a met cop on protection duties is not going to start writing tickets for the principles they are protecting otherwise to do so would be seriously detrimental to the balance of privacy and efficiency, and would make such operations impossible in the future.
. Most of those under protection actually resent it because even so there is still a line where that balance is tipped.
A summary only offence, which can't be prosecuted 6 months out, isn't likely to do it.
I'm no tory but this is political mudslinging as it always was, its just selling more papers because lots of people were trying to follow them. I'm sure at some point those who are frothing the most also made a choice which in hindsight could be read differently. It's all just a furore over what? A picnic in a private garden whilst people had to work anyway?
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Ste
Not Work Safe



Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Val wrote:
All police officers have a duty to prevent all crime. It is literally their job no matter where they are assigned.

All officers cannot prevent all crime as they have priorities.

Where and what they are assigned to is literally their job.
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Bhud
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Joined: 11 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: 20:56 - 12 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I was unaware of the relevant case law made in 2015 and 2018.

But here's a nice breakdown of Hill immunity as it stands today:

https://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/news/hill-immunity-revisited-the-beginning-of-the-end
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