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Which documents do I need to carry? If any....

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Obley
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 03 Jan 2022
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

Hi there all, happy new year. I'm new to the scene and am about to embark on my riding journey on Friday 7th, presuming I'm not a complete fool and somehow dont complete my CBT satisfactorily!! My query is this.... "what documents, if any, do I need to have on my person while daily riding or commuting?" I'm on a provisional, on a 125, insured and taxed etc etc. Fully legit. Apologies for repeating an old post, as I'm sure I probably have.
Cheers
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P.
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry nothing
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martin734
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

Obley wrote:
Hi there all, happy new year. I'm new to the scene and am about to embark on my riding journey on Friday 7th, presuming I'm not a complete fool and somehow dont complete my CBT satisfactorily!! My query is this.... "what documents, if any, do I need to have on my person while daily riding or commuting?" I'm on a provisional, on a 125, insured and taxed etc etc. Fully legit. Apologies for repeating an old post, as I'm sure I probably have.
Cheers

Legally, you are not required to carry any documentation at all. The details of your insurance are kept on a database the police can access if they wish to, likewise your driving licence. Some people recommend that you carry your CBT certificate but there is no requirement to do so, if you are stopped by the police and they request it but you don't have it wth you, they will probably ask you to produce it at a police station within 7 days. The only document I regularly, but not always carry is my driving licence for ID purposes.
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gbrand42
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PostPosted: 13:42 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, I always have my licence on me but only because it's in my wallet. I don't need to carry it
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry my driving licence purely because it lives in my wallet so I don't lose it.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 14:04 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Driving license because in wallet and insurance docs because email in phone....
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

martin734 wrote:

Legally, you are not required to carry any documentation at all. The details of your insurance are kept on a database the police can access if they wish to, likewise your driving licence. Some people recommend that you carry your CBT certificate but there is no requirement to do so, if you are stopped by the police and they request it but you don't have it wth you, they will probably ask you to produce it at a police station within 7 days. The only document I regularly, but not always carry is my driving licence for ID purposes.


This is not entirely true.

Legally, you are required to produce your driving licence (with CBT certificate if appropriate), MOT certificate and certificate of motor insurance if requested to do so by a uniformed police officer.

Failure to do so is an offence under the road traffic act 1988.

There is a statuatory defence for the offence (which you commit as soon as you fail to produce the requested documents) if you produce those documents at a nominated police station within 7 days of the request or as soon as is reasonably practicable.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

EDIT: So in answer to the OPs question, you are legally required to be able to produce your licence, MOT and insurance certificate on request. If you can't be arsed, you'll get away with it.

Of course, if they suspect you DON'T actually have one of these documents, they will seize your vehicle. The producing in 7 days thing is used by the police exclusively to inconvenience drivers they have stopped and haven't managed to find anything they've done wrong beyond being flagrantly young or in posession of a face they do not like the look of.

They already know if you have the documents, usually before you stopped.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

As long as all your documents are in order and up to date you should? Be fine.
If the piggies stop you and your documents are all legitimate, they should be able to do a pnc check to verify that.

However some piggies may say “oh we can’t verify that at the moment” and generally make your day shit.
IF you have hard copies with you at the time you get stopped, they can’t do that Smile Thumbs Up .

For my local/short rides , I only carry my driving license.
On long trips and my little overnight expeditions , I always carry paper copies of all my documents.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
I carry nothing

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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of it like this...

The police will look up the number plate of a vehicle and that will tell them what it is (as in model/colour) if it has MOT, tax and insurance. If they believe the person riding is the same as named on the insurance (producing a driving licence would help but not essential) then there's very little they'd be interested in beyond actual offenses like not stopping at a red light or speeding.

A large number of road traffic laws were crafted before the era of centralised online databases and are, for all practical purposes, irrelevant.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 21:12 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the docs, mot, insurance, tax is all digital these days and apart from L plates you do not need to carry anything around.

It makes good sense to carry the licence around with you, as I tell the students, riding a bike is dangerous, should something happen the paramedic can get a lot of info from the driving licence, name, date of birth, address and country of origin. There has been cases where a paramedic has needed to look for the licence of a polish fella. They made sure there was a polish speaking nurse at the bedside when he woke.
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Keithy
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 03 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

As above, if you are carrying your driving licence then that’s all that’s required to confirm your ID, link you to your bike and confirm your insurance. You need your wallet for a card/cash to pay for fuel etc. so why not?

It saves you getting a notice to produce and having to traipse down to the local nick.

Although the last time I was stopped he didn’t even ask to see my licence.
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Obley
L Plate Warrior



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PostPosted: 16:21 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
martin734 wrote:

Legally, you are not required to carry any documentation at all. The details of your insurance are kept on a database the police can access if they wish to, likewise your driving licence. Some people recommend that you carry your CBT certificate but there is no requirement to do so, if you are stopped by the police and they request it but you don't have it wth you, they will probably ask you to produce it at a police station within 7 days. The only document I regularly, but not always carry is my driving licence for ID purposes.


This is not entirely true.

Legally, you are required to produce your driving licence (with CBT certificate if appropriate), MOT certificate and certificate of motor insurance if requested to do so by a uniformed police officer.

Failure to do so is an offence under the road traffic act 1988.

There is a statuatory defence for the offence (which you commit as soon as you fail to produce the requested documents) if you produce those documents at a nominated police station within 7 days of the request or as soon as is reasonably practicable.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

EDIT: So in answer to the OPs question, you are legally required to be able to produce your licence, MOT and insurance certificate on request. If you can't be arsed, you'll get away with it.

Of course, if they suspect you DON'T actually have one of these documents, they will seize your vehicle. The producing in 7 days thing is used by the police exclusively to inconvenience drivers they have stopped and haven't managed to find anything they've done wrong beyond being flagrantly young or in posession of a face they do not like the look of.

They already know if you have the documents, usually before you stopped.



Thanks this is more than useful. Much appreciated
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ThunderGuts
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always carry my driving licence with me, partly to prove who I am to plod should they query me having a licence etc.., but more importantly if I come off / get hit and am unconscious (or worse) they'll actually have some idea of who I am, where I live and where my next of kin is.
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Ayrton
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I carry my license just because it serves as an ID if I get stopped or something like that. There's not a lot of room on most bikes to be putting insurance docs and things like that plus you can always save the document to your phone or easily log into your insurance site and get it from there. Maybe snap a photo of your CBT document too just in case.
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Abaaba
Renault 5 Driver



Joined: 14 Nov 2021
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PostPosted: 23:34 - 04 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

Obley wrote:
Hi there all, happy new year. I'm new to the scene and am about to embark on my riding journey on Friday 7th, presuming I'm not a complete fool and somehow dont complete my CBT satisfactorily!! My query is this.... "what documents, if any, do I need to have on my person while daily riding or commuting?" I'm on a provisional, on a 125, insured and taxed etc etc. Fully legit. Apologies for repeating an old post, as I'm sure I probably have.
Cheers


a mobile phone that has access to the net and a cloud folder called docs where all your docs are saved.............saying that, I always got my licence with me coz it is in my wallet.

btw, the police have access to all of these data so they can check it as long as they are happy you are who you say you are.
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Jay1000RR
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PostPosted: 09:28 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to carry my license with me, but TBH they already know before they pull you whether or not you are legal.

But i suppose it's better than have to produce your documents within 7 days lol
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jay1000RR wrote:
TBH they already know before they pull you whether or not you are legal

I expect that most instances of people being asked to produce their documents are the result of the polis already knowing or at least suspecting that dodginess is in play.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



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PostPosted: 12:29 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The filth used to give you a producer as a matter of course back in the day. I've been stopped a few times relatively recently (last 15 years) and they tend not to bother because it's a bit cuntish to insist on seeing the documents when they know whether you are legal from computer systems.

The MOT cert isn't really any more. It's just a sheet of A4 and most people's insurance documents are soft copy.
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Moth
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
martin734 wrote:

Legally, you are not required to carry any documentation at all.


This is not entirely true.

Legally, you are required to produce your driving licence (with CBT certificate if appropriate), MOT certificate and certificate of motor insurance if requested to do so by a uniformed police officer.

Failure to do so is an offence under the road traffic act 1988.

There is a statuatory defence for the offence (which you commit as soon as you fail to produce the requested documents) if you produce those documents at a nominated police station within 7 days of the request or as soon as is reasonably practicable.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

EDIT: So in answer to the OPs question, you are legally required to be able to produce your licence, MOT and insurance certificate on request. If you can't be arsed, you'll get away with it.

Of course, if they suspect you DON'T actually have one of these documents, they will seize your vehicle. The producing in 7 days thing is used by the police exclusively to inconvenience drivers they have stopped and haven't managed to find anything they've done wrong beyond being flagrantly young or in posession of a face they do not like the look of.

They already know if you have the documents, usually before you stopped.


Popular myth & I can't fault anyone thinking your way.

The actual wording of the act requires you to produce your documents on request, but it doesn't specify the time when you have to produce them, hence the HORT1. The law is the law & it has to be followed as it is written.

Although my first words are always "am I legally obliged to comply with that", closely followed with "am I free to go", I have to say that being generally cooperative & not at all belligerent goes a long way. I don't tend to answer many questions, they are not your friend.

Please, always carry some kind of ID that links your dead/comatose body to your next of kin, you do not have to show this to anyone unless you have been arrested or they have a search warrant.
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Moth
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
martin734 wrote:

Legally, you are not required to carry any documentation at all.


This is not entirely true.

Legally, you are required to produce your driving licence (with CBT certificate if appropriate), MOT certificate and certificate of motor insurance if requested to do so by a uniformed police officer.

Failure to do so is an offence under the road traffic act 1988.

There is a statuatory defence for the offence (which you commit as soon as you fail to produce the requested documents) if you produce those documents at a nominated police station within 7 days of the request or as soon as is reasonably practicable.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/164

EDIT: So in answer to the OPs question, you are legally required to be able to produce your licence, MOT and insurance certificate on request. If you can't be arsed, you'll get away with it.

Of course, if they suspect you DON'T actually have one of these documents, they will seize your vehicle. The producing in 7 days thing is used by the police exclusively to inconvenience drivers they have stopped and haven't managed to find anything they've done wrong beyond being flagrantly young or in posession of a face they do not like the look of.

They already know if you have the documents, usually before you stopped.


Popular myth & I can't fault anyone thinking your way.

The actual wording of the act requires you to produce your documents on request, but it doesn't specify the time when you have to produce them, hence the HORT1. The law is the law & it has to be followed as it is written.

Although my first words are always "am I legally obliged to comply with that", closely followed with "am I free to go", I have to say that being generally cooperative & not at all belligerent goes a long way. I don't tend to answer many questions, they are not your friend.

Please, always carry some kind of ID that links your dead/comatose body to your next of kin, you do not have to show this to anyone unless you have been arrested or they have a search warrant.
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Nobby the Bastard
Harley Gaydar



Joined: 16 Aug 2013
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PostPosted: 17:07 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

Moth wrote:
you do not have to show this to anyone unless you have been arrested or they have a search warrant.


Erm, you may not have to but if you fail to prove to them to their satisfaction what your identity is it's grounds to arrest in order to do so...

By the way, a defence in law is usually caselaw which won't be set out in the legislation but has been established by judges in court.
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Moth
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PostPosted: 17:35 - 05 Jan 2022    Post subject: Re: Which documents do I need to carry? If any.... Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:


Erm, you may not have to but if you fail to prove to them to their satisfaction what your identity is it's grounds to arrest in order to do so...

By the way, a defence in law is usually caselaw which won't be set out in the legislation but has been established by judges in court.


There was a period in my life when it seemed like I couldn't ride 500yds without being stopped. I'm not daft, I got clued up. There were times when I begged them not to nick me. Nowadays I beg them to arrest me, that is if it comes to all that nonsense. Nowadays I can always gain control of the situation by first asking them "how old are you"?

# "I fought the law & the law . . . eventually came to mutually agreeable impasse".
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F18
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 19:24 - 06 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most of the above, plus:

Anything new.
Like insurance that someone's being a bit tardy on sticking onto the MID, any new certificates to cover licence changes that DLVA haven't got around to loosing yet, a new MOT pass for something that looks like it shouldn't have ...
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Norts1531
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PostPosted: 19:42 - 06 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always thought that the legal requirement was to carry your license, your insurance & MOT certificates with you when out on/in your vehicle. As as been said 'to be produced upon demand of a uniformed Police Officer'. The HORT1 was introduced because nobody actually carried all these documents, and rather than arrest everyone that couldn't provide them, the driver/rider had 7 days to do so at a police station of their choice?
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