Rebuilt bike issues cranking when brake circuit activated

[xfxbaker]

Hello, i thought i would try asking here about my issue. I picked up a Chinese clone bike for cheap and rebuilt it. I stripped it down to the frame, sanded and repainted. I rebuilt everything over the course of a month or so. It's a 2006 Linhai 260cc. It goes by a couple of different names. Aeolus/Classic 260. It's a clone of the Yamaha Majesty or YP250.

I took lots of pictures along the way while tearing it down to aid in building it. It was missing parts and hardware. I was able to source almost everything but now i just need a couple of trim pieces.

The issue I'm having though is this...

The engine will crank with the start button only if i do not use either or both brakes. You are supposed to hold the brake down to complete the start circuit in order for the starter to turn over. Mine is the opposite. If i hold a brake, activating the brake light, it will not crank but as soon as i release the brake, turning off the brake light, the engine cranks over.

Literally everything works as it should except for that issue. I'm afraid it will kill the engine while riding if i use the brake. The brake switch connectors coming out of the loom/harness side have 12v when the key is turned on.

Has anyone experienced this?

It was missing the right side handlebar start/kill/light switch so i ended up purchasing an aftermarket set for both left and right. I used the factory left side and my meter to pin out the aftermarket one to match. I used my meter to pin the right side and everything works fine like it should but the brake circuit kills the engine. Or starter at least. I replaced the old starter relay and i bought a new cdi and ignition coil to replace the old ones. They seem to work fine.

I've been trying to figure out this one for a while. If anyone has any ideas or advice, i would greatly appreciate your input.

Thank you

-Derrick

[Nobby the Bastard]

Sounds like the wrong connections on a relay
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[WD Forte]

Aeolus?
never heard if it
is it like this YP250 what I tinkered with last year

fred:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=333262

pitcher:
https://imgur.com/Rv83wyH.jpg
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bikers smell of wee

[xfxbaker]

[xfxbaker]

Here are some pictures. I sanded and painted the exhaust.. It used to be chrome but it rusted. Other than that it's pretty much stock minus the new switches and brake lines etc. I don't have the dash-work (leg shield), or front fairing installed because i want to figure out this problem first. It's missing the lower front cowling completely. One thing at a time. Anyway, here are some pictures!

One is a video clip of the "Knight Rider" 3rd brake light. Kinda cool. Some are just the bike and one picture was crudely done on my phone showing the connectors up front. There is one connector and 1 single wire that i don't know where they go. The connector has 12v when the key is on and the single wire is hot at all times.

You can't see the headlight connector in the photo but it's there and accounted for lol

[WD Forte]

Yours looks like its possibly based on the original 1995-1999 YP250
with some cosmetic changes
The below diagram might help if it applies to your model
It's of limited use to me as mine has a 16 pin cdi /ecu thing
partly because of the tps on the carb.
Some aspects of the early models apply and some from the later
400cc EFI models which has made it a pita to get specific info on

The Yamaha YP250 Majesty seems to have spawned a few clones
Here a few I know of

Italjet Jupiter 250
Aprilia Leonardo 250
Linhai Aeolus/Classic 260

Here's the diagram I coloured in a bit for clarity
You can see how the brake switches (23/24) which when pulled
supply power to the starter relay (6) via relay 15.
the starter switch (17) takes the relay coil to ground when pressed
but this also relies on the state of the kill switch (18) which is connected to the CDI (10)and side stand switch (14) and cut out relay (15)
to set up the 'Run/Stop' conditions

I'm assuming the side stand switch is closed when it's up to allow
relay 15 supply power to the start system and also provide a ground to the CDI to allow sparks.
this also means you can stop the motor just by kicking the stand down
HTH

https://imgur.com/LSisDu1.jpg
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[WD Forte]

Just found this which might help
I haven't checked it only glanced at it
but as Linhai may not follow Yamahas colour conventions it might be useful .
EDIT:
it's a bit densly packed and incomplete but had a quick look and it seems to follow the same starting system process as the previous diagram.
also broadly similar cable colours like black for grounds
but not all because it uses a few purple cables which I dont recall on my Yamaha

https://imgur.com/Lvuxliz.jpg
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[jaffa90]

"""The engine will crank with the start button only if i do not use either or both brakes"""
Where is it getting the live feed from ????
Is this diagram the same?

[Easy-X]

Is anything odd happening like the rear lamp glowing slightly when you hit the starter button (with the brake levers not depressed) ?
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Nobby the Bastard]

Does it have just a standard 12v relay there or a specific solenoid?

The reason I ask is because there are 2 flavours of 12v relay. There's a basic one which just provides a connection when power is applied (4 pin) and one that will provide a connection when powered and a different connection when uncovered (5 pin).

There's no danger of it cutting out when braking if this circuit is wired incorrectly, btw.

This relay is on the starting circuit and not the ignition side.
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Nobby the Bastard]

I'm wondering if the wires from the brake light and battery have been swapped.

Then power would get to the starter when the starter button is used but when the brake light is lit there may not be sufficient power to spin the starter.


Actually scrub that. I cannot think of any way the wiring could be fucked up resulting in your issue if the diagram provided is correct .
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Sprint ST 1050

[Nobby the Bastard]

[WD Forte]

This is home brew diagram we don't know for sure its anything more than a common rectifier diode in there.

Usually you have a diode on a relay coil to allow the collapsing field to dissipate without damaging components or sending spikes/false signals.
To also have a zener diode to control the voltage seems odd.
you might see it in sensitive, high speed circuits, but on a bike?

In use I would say it's to control the collapsing field voltage
so allow voltages up to it's rated voltage (12.7V for instance) then shut off any higher ones


Going back to the original fault
We've all put stuff back together wrongly so that would be my
first guess
OR
The above and possibly the aftermarket switches have different
functions like being NC types when the originals were NO?
OR
15 years is long enough for previous owner 'improvements' and changes which probably made sense them but leave subsequent owners puzzled.

It's almost impossible to diagnose at distance because we never ever, get the full picture.
If I had it here, I'd go back to basics
Disconnect it all then rebuild it step by step testing as I went.
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[xfxbaker]

Nothing odd happens when i activate the brake circuit. The only relays on this bike are the flasher and the starter relay. Every diagram i look at or find online mentions a starting circuit cutoff relay as well as the starter relay? I have no connectors left over. The mystery connector in my previous picture is for the glove compartment light. So literally the only wire that doesn't have a home is the single bl/r wire that is hot at all times. Weird.

The starter solenoid has the battery cable and starter cable connection and a 4 pin block. My ignition key switch has only 2 wires. Every diagram i see has at least 3 or 4.

Yeah somehow it's getting power to the start solenoid without the brake switches completing the circuit. Either i wired the main handlebar switches wrong or a p.o. did a hack job somewhere that i haven't found yet!

I thought about the switches being of the wrong kind NO/NC but the circuit has to be closed to turn on the brake light and that's what it's doing when i squeeze the lever. Perhaps i have the wrong wires for the start and kill switch or something silly like that. I'll go back through it to be absolutely sure. It was really late and i was rushing through when i probed and pinned.

I know what you mean about being hard to diagnose from a distance. I tell the same thing to people lol. I've been probing all over the place.. it has to be something simple going on.

Thank you for the diagrams and information! I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. I'll post back if i notice anything i think is odd or if i get it sorted out.

[xfxbaker]

Hey so... i charged up the battery and went to check and see if the brake light came on while starting and sure enough after 1 second of cranking, the tail or brake light slowly illuminates and the smaller red light above that turns on. (Thank you, Easy-X!) I overlooked this.

The first video is turning on the key, putting the kill switch to run and pressing the start button. The 2nd video is showing how it is with just the parking lights turned on.

Just recorded a 3rd video. Key on, switch set to kill and i squeeze the brake lever. Then i release the brake, turn on the parking light and then squeeze the brake lever. Just to see.

After i uploaded the videos i disconnected the start/kill switch assembly and probed the harness. 9 pins. The wire that runs to the cdi and ignition coil shows 0.5v and the center 3 wires show 12v. When testing in continuity mode, every single wire in the connector except for that cdi/coil wire have a direct path to ground. ??

Every pin in the rectifier plug has a connection to the positive side on the battery. When i do the same but probe the negative battery terminal, all pins have a connection. There's a red, green, and 3 yellow from the stator.

[WD Forte]

I reckon you've probably made a mistake when connecting up that
aftermarket switchgear.

you cannot rely on cable colours with this stuff
I always map out and note cable colour and functions comparing it with original functions before final connection and step by step test.
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[Easy-X]

From the wiring diagrams if the starter switch were wired to a positive feed then the chain would be something like...

+ve > starter switch > relay > rear bulb > frame ground

Whereas what's meant to happen is...

+ve > brake switch > relay > starter switch > frame ground

Break out the multimeter and if you find positive voltage on either of the two wires to the starter switch you've connected it up wrong
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[WD Forte]

cba to pore over the diags again but a note on after market switches
and kill switches on particular.
Many have the contacts closed in the RUN position
but its not unusual for some have the opposite for varied reasons
I cba to get into, but a quick check with meter will tell
____________________
bikers smell of wee

[xfxbaker]

I do believe i wired the start/kill switches wrong. It's almost solved now. The start/kill and brake all works as it should but now i have no spark lol. The wire i mentioned that runs to the cdi and coil.. Key on, kill to run position, no volt. Pull brake lever and it shows 12v. So in this situation where it's ready to start..i hold the start button and all of the voltage vanishes, goes to 0. Grounding out somehow so I'll poke around some more. Perhaps a wire is still in the wrong spot. Frustrations. Lol


Big thanks to all of you for your help so far

*Edit*
I hooked the cdi wire in with a hot that turns on with the key and now everything works. Crank and spark when the key is on, switch set to run and the brake is activated. No crank when switch is set to kill or key is off or when a brake is not activated. Also verified side stand switch when activated kills spark.

Not sure if this is the proper way but it seems to have fixed The problem.

[Easy-X]

Nice! Ask yourself these questions: does it work, is it safe, is it secure? That's all you need
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[xfxbaker]