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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:02 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quality of this web 1.0 subforum has been abysmal. There was that long thread by you-know-who. And the go go Tommy Robinson one. It's proof that this sort of format where you've got total free speech doesn't work - it just creates an echo chamber of a few people. No wonder the Colston statue being broken came as such a total shock.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:20 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
If you go and chat on Facebook and Reddit, people don't think in terms of skin colour, any more than, for example, synth enthusiasts think about skin colour.


Is that why so many corporate workplaces say they "particularly encourage BAME applicants"? Or are you saying those people aren't people? To be clear, it has to be one of them.

I'm perfectly happy for us to remove references to skin colour, but it does have to be all references, not just the ones that aren't favourable to the BAME [as you seem to be wanting and have yet to clarify for us].
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:28 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nah, "echo chamber" has just become a term to denigrate those who don't agree with you. The term has been completely devalued, is now meaningless.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:31 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing right by individuals I don't know by insisting that employers should be colour-blind when recruiting, say, a HR manager, is an abstraction too far for my taste. It just doesn't matter to me.

There are reasons why they might encourage only BAME to apply for a job. For example, maybe they face, or expect to face, accusations of racism, unless they upped their number. Don't care if some kid feels hard-done-by if they've applied for a job and didn't get it. I felt hard-done-by many times when applying for jobs I didn't get. I had my suspicions but what could I do? Nobody cared then and nobody cares now.

THERE'S MORE. This is the bit I'm trying to get across, because nobody wants to see it or believe it. What do you think is going on in this picture?

https://www.facebook.com/creativityforchangeforum/photos/a.229021024133765/229021144133753/?type=3&is_lookaside=1

Staged, with fashionable people, right?
Well, who are they, how did they get there and what are they doing?
The agenda is crystal clear: societies are being reconstructed all over the world, and this is in the interests of the progress of humanity.
SHE is not pulling the strings there, I can tell you that.


Last edited by Bhud on 14:42 - 16 Jan 2022; edited 1 time in total
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:33 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Nah, "echo chamber" has just become a term to denigrate those who don't agree with you.


You're just putting on your favourite blinkers.
There are about 6 or 7 participants in this subforum here.
I've told you before: share your views on

/r/motouk
/r/motorcycle

Go on, do it. There are hundreds of people there. Then maybe you'll see what I mean when I say this is an echo chamber. Or a pasture, of sorts.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:46 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

This TED talk took place 8 years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oyaFsVjGgI

She was selected many years before that - by shadowy, white, people. In effect, the plan came first, then the people were chosen, then they were trained up, then they were given practice sessions as above. And now we've got someone's vision the future city actually happening, and people are beginning to react because they don't know what's going on. Oh why is that statue falling down and why don't the old systems work any more? My 6 mates on an internet forum never imagined this would happen. What you see happening all around you was decades in the works. Every human weakness was exploited and every psychological trick was deployed. Not by them but by their handlers.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Nah, "echo chamber" has just become a term to denigrate those who don't agree with you.


You're just putting on your favourite blinkers.


Everyone has their opinions Smile

I don't see many with opinion arrived at through thought though. Most of what I see is just regurgitated from some very dubious sources, often almost word for word. Even universities are discouraging free thinking it seems. Reading it all is like being in a never ending circle of deja vu.

Me, I'm not sure about many things. Lots seem to think they have all the answers though. Lucky them. Doesn't seem to make them very happy though.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

These social planner types may think they have all the answers, at a later stage, once they've given their all (and I mean their all) to be in the circle, and have become made men and made women. If it's any comfort, I think there's a heavy psychological price they have to pay. I enjoy a bit of schadenfreude seeing the cracks in these puppets (before they get inevitably papered over), because I think it's wrong to have no dignity or self-respect. However, the course of events has now been set, and we're seeing the results of this play out in the world.

Also, not being a dick, but I haven't yet seen any evidence of free-thinking or a position arrived at through thought, from you. I'm not saying you're incapable, just that you have these blinkers and you refuse to see what's right in front of you.

Take this rambling, incoherent diatribe given at Google, for example:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q15Arz_Vv60

Contains reference to plastic straws (which hadn't yet been banned), single-use water bottles, AI singularity, Neuralink, etc. Maybe she reads too much science fiction, or is just some lunatic at Hyde Park Corner. Or maybe - just maybe - this is actually happening and you're way behind the times.


Last edited by Bhud on 16:43 - 16 Jan 2022; edited 1 time in total
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 16:39 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now hurty feelings is more important than actual law as long as it is lefty hurty feelings.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:
Doing right by individuals I don't know by insisting that employers should be colour-blind when recruiting, say, a HR manager, is an abstraction too far for my taste. It just doesn't matter to me.

There are reasons why they might encourage only BAME to apply for a job. For example, maybe they face, or expect to face, accusations of racism, unless they upped their number. Don't care if some kid feels hard-done-by if they've applied for a job and didn't get it. I felt hard-done-by many times when applying for jobs I didn't get. I had my suspicions but what could I do? Nobody cared then and nobody cares now.

THERE'S MORE. This is the bit I'm trying to get across, because nobody wants to see it or believe it. What do you think is going on in this picture?

https://www.facebook.com/creativityforchangeforum/photos/a.229021024133765/229021144133753/?type=3&is_lookaside=1

Staged, with fashionable people, right?
Well, who are they, how did they get there and what are they doing?
The agenda is crystal clear: societies are being reconstructed all over the world, and this is in the interests of the progress of humanity.
SHE is not pulling the strings there, I can tell you that.


So which of these best fits your views:
1) Consider skin colour
2) Don't consider skin colour

As for the photo, I don't have Facebook.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 16:46 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


So which of these best fits your views:
1) Consider skin colour
2) Don't consider skin colour

As for the photo, I don't have Facebook.


I don't have Facebook either, but the link works. I found it in a search because I knew what to search for.

I'll go with option 3.

3) You guys are way behind the times and your feelings about right vs left and white vs non-white are being manipulated by people who know what they're doing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:42 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with social justice vs. real justice is it's all very nice till the boot's on the other foot.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would be nice if the whole idea of "justice" just went away, tbh.

It's so easy to weaponise - their justice vs your justice, etc. Social justice, higher justice, god's justice, natural law, Aquinas and a long history of nonsense. But look back far enough and it's just harmful at its root. Trial by combat.

Here's a natural justice system:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDZR1z5Lz6s

Leave humans alone and that's what they create. A system of law and order and justice. Well, how about social credits?

What China's got is a method and means of calculating what's good (i.e. beneficial) for the majority. So, if someone's accused of something, they will think about something bigger than themselves (i.e. the interests of the family, community or whatever collective) when deciding whether to admit guilt and take the shame.

I'm not saying we should import that here. I'm just saying it works because they've moved on from the idea of justice.

At the end of the day, the kids and the people making this happen have zero interest in convincing any of us here. They've got an "OK boomer" attitude. The justice system here has been reformed many times. Reforming it again is like carrying out maintenance work on landlines and public telephone booths.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The problem with social justice vs. real justice is it's all very nice till the boot's on the other foot.


Much of this stuff originates with a group called common purpose.

Bhud wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


So which of these best fits your views:
1) Consider skin colour
2) Don't consider skin colour

As for the photo, I don't have Facebook.


I don't have Facebook either, but the link works. I found it in a search because I knew what to search for.

I'll go with option 3.

3) You guys are way behind the times and your feelings about right vs left and white vs non-white are being manipulated by people who know what they're doing


So you are refusing to defend your original claim, and hence it is defeated by default.

Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:44 - 16 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
The problem with social justice vs. real justice is it's all very nice till the boot's on the other foot.


Much of this stuff originates with a group called common purpose.


Well that's pretty much the basis of common law, start with simple stuff and just keep refining it... over millennia, ffs Rolling Eyes

Social credits? Pah! How long as that been running for? People have been touting Communism for the last century or so and it's only achievement for humanity is upping the efficiency of genocide.

Personally I'd love to see a social credit system as it'll be based on piss-poor technology easy to game (for the likes of me anyway) but as a freedom loving human being...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a5/PrisonerNumberSIx.jpg/220px-PrisonerNumberSIx.jpg

...I find the concept obnoxious.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 12:54 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Virtue signalling is the new term for having a social conscience


Them imbeciles that post up JK Rowlings address for abuse reckon they have a Social conscience Laughing Rolling Eyes Laughing
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Diggs
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not convinced it is possible to be 'free thinking' in todays society without removing oneself from the incessant and insidious nonsense that is the internet. We are constantly bombarded with targeted opinion, which reinforces whatever views we hold to the point that we can't consider any other.

Kids have it worst because they can't remember a time when you got your news from a paper and you were able to chat about it face to face without some muppet calling you a Nazi, woke or whatever.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 14:24 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Diggs wrote:
I'm not convinced it is possible to be 'free thinking' in todays society without removing oneself from the incessant and insidious nonsense that is the internet. We are constantly bombarded with targeted opinion, which reinforces whatever views we hold to the point that we can't consider any other.

Kids have it worst because they can't remember a time when you got your news from a paper and you were able to chat about it face to face without some muppet calling you a Nazi, woke or whatever.


The woke types are generally fine on their own. It's when there is a group of woke people that they become a problem as virtue signalling is competitive and they have to prove their wokeness to the social collective.

https://i.ndtvimg.com/i/2015-03/peacock_650x400_51425290220.jpg
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite simply, I think that if the majority of your peers do not think that you did anything wrong: you did not do anything wrong. I accept that it depends on the pool the Jurors are selected from and there will be regional and demographical bias accompanying that, but that is a failing in the randomness of selection.

Too many who control the levers of State believe laws are to control the People. Laws are to be for the betterment of the People and should be in the interests of the People. If the People do not think they are in their interest and acquit people because they don't think it should be criminalised then the law itself should be changed to reflect the will of the People.

For the avoidance of doubt, this is not a leftist view: it is Libertarian.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear "will of the People" and "will of the Mob" are not the same things.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Just to be clear "will of the People" and "will of the Mob" are not the same things.


At what point do we define the majority of people being the People or a Mob? Is anyone who disagrees with your opinion the Mob? Who's opposing argument is more valid than the others?

We are all fucked. I just wish people would stop thinking up new ways to divide us and just tried to live a happy life with what short and ultimately meaningless, yet precious time we have left. Wokeness is bollocks. Counter-wokeness is bollocks.

I saw an advert at the weekend that you can now buy fast food on credit (Cinch) and it just struck me. Why are we fighting over imaginary racism and identity issues when the real issue we should be fighting is the ever-growing wealth disparity and that we are slowly marching towards a world where most people will never own their homes, etc.

In the future, you will own nothing and you will be happy. That prediction is becoming frighteningly true.

We already live in the dystopian future, everyone just hasn't realised it yet.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason such "real" issues are never addressed is because these supposedly organic mobs of ordinary people are tightly organised by puppet masters. XR and the loft botherers are the classic example, absolutely zero merit. Who's organising them? Fuck knows, someone with a lot of money.

And at the other (political) end there's the likes of Laurence Fox and Reclaim. He's openly admitted he has a rich benefactor with an agenda to push.

The downside of wealth disparity is you end up with lots of bored hyper-rich dudes who identify more with Doctor No than Doctor Who Sad
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 23:24 - 17 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The reason such "real" issues are never addressed is because these supposedly organic mobs of ordinary people are tightly organised by puppet masters. XR and the loft botherers are the classic example, absolutely zero merit. Who's organising them? Fuck knows, someone with a lot of money.

And at the other (political) end there's the likes of Laurence Fox and Reclaim. He's openly admitted he has a rich benefactor with an agenda to push.

The downside of wealth disparity is you end up with lots of bored hyper-rich dudes who identify more with Doctor No than Doctor Who Sad


Charitable trusts, "community leaders"...
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 00:06 - 18 Jan 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
bored hyper-rich dudes who identify more with Doctor No than Doctor Who Sad


2,755 billionaires in the world and not a single one of them has become Batman yet. I am disappointed beyond measure.
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