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Engine gone pop after 10 days, no warranty, where do I stand

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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:00 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Engine gone pop after 10 days, no warranty, where do I stand Reply with quote

Bought a 2006 DR-Z400SM with just over 20k on the clock (and 10 former keepers) 8 days ago and the engine has just gone bang tonight.

Bought it from a trader and was told it comes without a warranty, it also states this on the sales invoice.

Not made contact with them yet as I've only just got back indoors from having being recovered but I wanna get an email to them tonight if possible but wanted some advice before I do.

Where do I stand?

I thought any used vehicle being sold by a trader to the general public (i.e. not a trade sale) was subject to a statutory 3 month guarantee?

Or am I wrong about this?

Mentioned this on another post and a few people cast doubt over this but I could have sworn I heard this was the case ages ago but from a reliable source.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

They have to be able to prove that the fault was not present when they sold you the bike. They might be able to argue this in court. The issue really is that you may have to go to court...

Don't be harsh with them at first. Be firm, tell them what has happened and see what their response is. If they fob you off, reply to them saying you want them to recover the bike at their cost and examine it with a view to repairing it. Then if you don't get any joy then you can consider laying the smackdown but it's not a nice situation. You really do get yourself into scrapes don't you?
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:11 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks MarJay!

Yeah it just seems everything I touch just goes bang recently, even the cabs! We've done 2 engines this year already!

Midas' Touch?

More like Moron's Touch!

So you reckon I have to ask for it to be fixed? You don't think I can reject the goods and demand my money back?

But yeah I wouldn't go in there guns blazing and acting like a knob I'll be friendly but firm to start with and see how much they're willing to play ball and take it from there...
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
Bought a 2006 DR-Z400SM with just over 20k on the clock (and 10 former keepers) .


I think I see the problem....
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, yeah, I know. I didn't go into this purchase expecting to receive a bike in 'as new' condition. But you expect it to last longer than 8 days before the engine going pop!
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Last edited by DUCAUDI on 02:39 - 11 Mar 2022; edited 1 time in total
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
Yeah, yeah, I know. I didn't go into this sale expecting to receive a bike in 'as new' condition. But you expect it to last longer than 8 days before the engine going pop!


A 16 year old peaky supermoto with 10 previous owners? I wouldn't expect it to get out of the carpark.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't win.

Was gonna buy a much newer Super Duke 390 for a grand less and everyone on here told me not to, that it was a stupid idea and that I should buy a bloody DR-Z instead!

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=333984

Ok use of the word 'everyone' might be a slight exaggeration!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 02:24 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consumer Rights Act 2015 says you can reject a second hand vehicle purchased from a dealer if it turns out to be faulty within 30 days.

Fun phrases which are relevant are ‘of satisfactory quality’,
‘fit for purpose’ and ‘as described’.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-bought-from-a-dealer-aeziX3M7tYNw
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-is-the-consumer-rights-act

Basically you need to be willing and ready to take them to court over it.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 02:30 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Consumer Rights Act 2015 says you can reject a second hand vehicle purchased from a dealer if it turns out to be faulty within 30 days.

Fun phrases which are relevant are ‘of satisfactory quality’,
‘fit for purpose’ and ‘as described’.

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/letter/letter-rejecting-a-new-or-used-car-bought-from-a-dealer-aeziX3M7tYNw
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-or-repairing-a-car/problems-with-a-used-car/
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/what-is-the-consumer-rights-act

Basically you need to be willing and ready to take them to court over it.


Magic. Thanks!

I'll email them politely requesting to reject the bike for a full refund. It won't really be a request, it'll be a demand, but I don't want to come across as trying to be a c**t over it. I'll start off softly softly. Probably gonna ring LBC consumer hour tomorrow 9pm 'til 10pm just to reaffirm what you've said here, I've no reason to disbelieve it but confirmation from a legal beagle would be nice before I start playing hardball. I may not have to, they may refund me without a battle, but for some reason I doubt it! So tune in if you wanna hear my goofy story and promptly take the p**s out of me on here afterwards.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 03:13 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
Probably gonna ring LBC consumer hour tomorrow 9pm 'til 10pm just to reaffirm what you've said here, I've no reason to disbelieve it but confirmation from a legal beagle would be nice before I start playing hardball.

Thumbs Up

As much as I'm always correct, it's still a good idea to get confirmation from an appropriate expert.

Citizens Advice Bureau will be able to offer advice with exactly what you should and should not say in your letter.

/r/LegalAdviceUK/ is another place you can find actual experts who're more qualified than me. Laughing
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 03:18 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Citizens Advice Bureau will be able to offer advice with exactly what you should and should not say in your letter.


Last time I went there (about 20 years ago) I had to wait 3 hours to be seen by a pleb with no legal knowledge or expertise who was simply 'Googling' (or Alta Vista, whatever it was back then!) the answers to the questions that I had. Nothing I couldn't have done myself from home.

Thought I was going to see an expert.

Never been back since Laughing
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Last edited by DUCAUDI on 07:12 - 11 Mar 2022; edited 1 time in total
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 06:42 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
TravisBickle wrote:
Yeah, yeah, I know. I didn't go into this sale expecting to receive a bike in 'as new' condition. But you expect it to last longer than 8 days before the engine going pop!


A 16 year old peaky supermoto with 10 previous owners? I wouldn't expect it to get out of the carpark.


Exactly my thoughts when the ad was posted on here too.

Hope you get it sorted though, at least it happened now and not in a month's time.

How exactly did it go pop?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 07:08 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where is the advert that you speak of?
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 07:46 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Where is the advert that you speak of?


It's been taken down now.

https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=4795011&highlight=#4795011
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Ste
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PostPosted: 08:25 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

In that case Mr Bickle will want to get a copy of the advert and luckily Auto Trader are more than happy to oblige with such requests.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/sell-my-car/frequently-asked-questions/information-about-an-old-advert
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 12:49 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

While not a reliable device, I am interested to know more details about how this DRZ suddenly went pop.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the dealer falls back behind the "sold as seen" defence, they are going to pull a surprised Pikachu face in County Court when the Judge tells them their own policies don't override the law.

Traders try to remove their liability, but they can't when dealing with a consumer: these disclaimers only really work in business to business dealings and even then can be challenged.

Don't take my word for it, see blog here by a solicitors firm:

https://www.brownejacobson.com/retail/training-and-resources/blogs/2015/11/the-death-of-sold-as-seen
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have they got to sell it as trade or spares or something to get out of the warranty thing. I'm sure someone on here posted that at some time.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's no requirement for second hand vehicles to be sold with a warranty.

Statutory consumer rights mean that second hand vehicles from dealers have to be of 'satisfactory quality’, ‘fit for purpose’ and ‘as described’.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 19:42 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
There's no requirement for second hand vehicles to be sold with a warranty.

Statutory consumer rights mean that second hand vehicles from dealers have to be of 'satisfactory quality’, ‘fit for purpose’ and ‘as described’.


No warranty but it's in their court to prove that any defect was NOT present if the vehicle breaks within 6 months of sale.
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Weisse Schlange
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you bought it from a trader it MUST do what it is being sold for (fit for purpose) , for a reasonable length of time.

No such thing as sold as seen or trade sale if you buy from a trader.
He's liable, tell him to fix it or refund it.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 20:08 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
How exactly did it go pop?


this
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Copycat73
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeem ouzzer wrote:
While not a reliable device, I am interested to know more details about how this DRZ suddenly went pop.


the weak spot was the gearbox .. fine in standard trim .. but any tuning even a power exhaust stresses the box which can and does fail.. thrashing the tits off it accelerates the process ...
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

redeem ouzzer wrote:
While not a reliable device, I am interested to know more details about how this DRZ suddenly went pop.


Well if I'm honest, it wasn't 100% instant. It did start rattling faintly for a few minutes beforehand (may have been louder than I realised, bearing in mind the wind noise and VERY loud exhaust, the rattling didn't seem that loud to me while I was riding), I got off and checked the chain as that's where it sounded to me like it was coming from, chain was fine but then realised the rattling stopped when I pulled the clutch in and the revs dropped and was still coasting along (so obviously the chain still going round but no longer making a racket) so became obvious it was something internally wrong with the engine and not the chain... Then shortly afterwards it started clattering and banging around very loudly like there was a load of nuts and bolts in a tumble drier, quickly pulled the clutch in and turned the engine off, rolled to a stop, tried to re-start, engine seized.

That's the best way I can describe it really.



Polarbear wrote:
Have they got to sell it as trade or spares or something to get out of the warranty thing. I'm sure someone on here posted that at some time.


Yeah that's what I thought. I've been sold perfectly good cars in the past with NON RUNNER, or SOLD FOR SPARES OR REPAIR on the sales invoice, not because there was anything wrong with the car just so the trader can get round their statutory obligations to me after the sale, which I have since learned isn't strictly a warranty or guarantee as such but is protected under the consumer rights as others in here have pointed towards.

No such disclaimer on this sale, however. Only a bit that said:

Warranty: None
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Last edited by DUCAUDI on 23:24 - 11 Mar 2022; edited 2 times in total
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 11 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it was the gearbox that failed, would this account for the seized engine?
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