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Engine gone pop after 10 days, no warranty, where do I stand

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pits
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PostPosted: 21:51 - 26 Mar 2022    Post subject: Re: Fair use. Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:


However my super small piston absolutely fucking abused and didn't complain.

You have no idea whats about to snap in two.

ftfy
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:37 - 27 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
I literally took a company through the Scottish equivalent of small claims court (here it's the Simple Procedure at a Sheriff Court) and all they had to do to avoid it was to replace a £36 plushie.

A what?

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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 14:03 - 27 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
A what?


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A100man
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:


Fat, Angry, In Touch With His Feminine Side, Scotsman?
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 11:53 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Fat, Angry, In Touch With His Feminine Side, Scotsman?


It was for my girlfriend Embarassed

EDIT: but I do have another little plushie on my desk that was given to me as a gift

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c_dug
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 19 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
c_dug wrote:
Before sending it back to them I'd take a few pictures/videos of things for your own proof. Good quality 360° photographs of the entire bike. The oil sight or dip stick. The coolant reservoir maybe? You may never need the pictures, but if you need them in future it will be too late.


VERY good advice, and to be honest I probably wouldn't have thought to do so had you not mentioned it. So thanks for that! Took some very thorough walkround videos and stills before I set off. I live opposite a farm that has a lot of tractors and HGVs coming and going throughout the day, the verges of the lane get driven on constantly and the lane is very dusty especially when it's dry, consequently anything on our driveway get COVERED in a light brown dust. Then any dampness or dew the next morning and it sticks to the bodywork making everything look really filthy and generally un-cared for but it's only light surface dust and not in-ground grime and grit. Nevertheless to be fair the bike looked a right state when I loaded it onto the trailer. I thought the last thing I need is for the trader to be passing some comment when I dropped it off is like "look at the state of it, is this how you keep your bikes?". I needed to get my taxi cleaned in and out anyway so dropped by the hand car wash on the way and they sprayed it down while it was on the trailer for me.

I think first impressions say a lot. A bit like if you go to buy a bike that's filthy you're instantly going to get the impression it's not been cared for. Likewise, try to return a bike to a trader for a full refund covered in mud and they're going to assume or try to portray that you've abused it. Same goes for presenting your bike for a part-ex valuation. Always helps turning up with a clean bike.

Anyway dropped the bike off with the keys the folder with the spare keys in and the user manual and service book and all the history etc. They tried to push the bits and bobs back on me saying "we won't need that".

I'm thinking... "I think you will!".

"No, no, no, we won't need that take it back with you, we'll repair it".

I'm thinking "we've had this conversation three times now and you're still trying to bury your head in the sand and refusing to address my request for a full refund". They haven't outright refused so far. Just refusing to commit to anything and keep banging on about repairing it. Standard tactics for a trader I assume.

I politely made it clear that I'm expecting a refund and finished with "if I have to come back at some point to collect the bike anyway it won't hurt to leave the stuff with you in the meantime, will it.".

I wasn't kicking off but there were other customers in the showroom and I think they wanted me gone so agreed to take the bumph that the bike came with off me and I was on my way.


Any progress from here?

Just curious.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 03:19 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

None. They've gone quiet and now not responding to my emails. I have currently given them the choice of refund in full or defend a small claims case with a deadline to respond by. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for your interest/concern.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:06 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
None. They've gone quiet and now not responding to my emails. I have currently given them the choice of refund in full or defend a small claims case with a deadline to respond by. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for your interest/concern.


If you have to go down the small claims route then I suggest writing them a formal letter politely asking them to sort this out. Keep a copy and submit it with your court paperwork. It looks better if you can show how reasonable you've been.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
None. They've gone quiet and now not responding to my emails. I have currently given them the choice of refund in full or defend a small claims case with a deadline to respond by. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for your interest/concern.


I thought you were in Scotland (where it would be the Simple Procedure - not Small Claims) Confused
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:12 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Keep a copy and submit it with your court paperwork. It looks better if you can show how reasonable you've been.

He'll need to submit copies of all paperwork and communications.

He needs to be ready to apply to the court when the deadline he's given the dealer arrives.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a bit out of touch: would emails be counted as informal communication?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 18:54 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Errr no idea, emails are formal enough and if the dealer has replied then they've clearly received the emails.

However I would hope that everything sent by email has also been sent by recorded delivery / special delivery.

Certainly the last letter needs to have been sent by such postal services.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 23:31 - 21 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Errr no idea, emails are formal enough and if the dealer has replied then they've clearly received the emails.

However I would hope that everything sent by email has also been sent by recorded delivery / special delivery.

Certainly the last letter needs to have been sent by such postal services.


Good idea. It's all been done by email so far which, to be fair in 2022 I think is good enough to count as formal and traceable communication, but yeah the final letter by recorded post is not a bad idea!
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 13:01 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I'm a bit out of touch: would emails be counted as informal communication?


I have no idea what you are talking about?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:51 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
I have no idea what you are talking about?


I think what he's asking is if email now carries the same legal weight as a letter. I don't think it quite does as it's not direct communication, but I don't think that makes a difference for this particular issue. It's not a financial transaction or legal document, it's just a correspondence.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
sickpup wrote:
I have no idea what you are talking about?


I think what he's asking is if email now carries the same legal weight as a letter. I don't think it quite does as it's not direct communication, but I don't think that makes a difference for this particular issue. It's not a financial transaction or legal document, it's just a correspondence.


In Scots Law e-mails are admissible except in some cases like assignations where it must be done by registered post. I would imagine it's similar in English Law.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

E-mails are completely fine however sending the "sort it out within 7 calendar days or I'll be seeking resolution through the courts" wants to also be sent by recorded delivery / special delivery to show that the situation is esclating and to stop them being dicks by trying to say that they never received it.

The deadline is very soon?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back in my day* all the telephone conversations and even in-person exchanges didn't count for shit to a court. They wanted invoices, statements and formal letters - hardcopy. The wheels of justice grind slow so I just wondered how emails were looked upon given they've supplanted fax machines for instantaneous business communications.

Fax machines... that takes me back Smile

*...a belt? Pah! We were so poor I never saw a belt till I was 35, we only had string. String?! You were lucky... etc.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 22 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
I think what he's asking is if email now carries the same legal weight as a letter. I don't think it quite does as it's not direct communication, but I don't think that makes a difference for this particular issue. It's not a financial transaction or legal document, it's just a correspondence.


The answer to this is yes and no and requires you know case law.

Basically if you send an email to an address the company has for example on a website etc i.e it is a form of contact they have supplied then it carries in theory the same weight as any letter would UNTIL such time as a Judge/Magistrate says otherwise so as Ste says always back up with a letter preferably Special Delivery.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 01:03 - 23 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The deadline is very soon?


On 9th April I gave them 28 days to comply with my polite request. So deadline should be 7th of May.

They ignored my first email but I sent a follow up reminder on 21st.

They replied with this yesterday (Friday 22nd):

Quote:
It looks very much so we would be entering a legal battle because i will not be refunding you for this bike, i will be obtaining all the evidence needed to prove misuse causing the extent of damage to your engine.

I have always been more than fair with my customers but at the same time I'm not here to be taken for a fool, when you look at the extent of damage to your engine diagnosis is not difficult at all. And likewise any costs we put into this we would be claiming for.
I am more than happy to work with you on this and come to an arrangement to suit both parties, but if you're not going to except any responsibility at all then unfortunately the legal route will be the only option.


I think they're bluffing. I don't believe they can prove misuse. All I done was rode the damn thing! They can prove catastrophic engine damage but there's no way of indicating that it was a result of my misuse, is there? Could have been thrashed to within an inch of its life by the previous owners, as I suspect, and I was just the unfortunate sole to be on it when it finally gave up the ghost from its previous abuse. Any bumph they provide in court is hardly going to be impartial is it, just because they show up with pictures of engine damage, is a magistrate really going to take their word for it that it was caused by me? Problem being magistrates are hardly experts on the mechanical working of a motorcycle engine.
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Last edited by DUCAUDI on 01:09 - 23 Apr 2022; edited 1 time in total
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 01:08 - 23 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to be honest I'm fairly surprised they haven't hit me wit the scare tactic of threatening to charge me for storage, as they still have the bike and have had for months now.
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DJP
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PostPosted: 20:44 - 23 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

They're totally bluffing. What misuse can they prove in 10 days? And how can they prove that it was down to you?

The bottom line is that they can't.

I don't know if you're in Scotland but in England the onus is on the dealer to prove that the fault didn't exist at the point of sale (within 6 months).

So even if they prove that the engine is severely worn/damaged all that they've proved is that they sold you a worn/damaged engine.

I very much doubt that they can win. But whether you can get anything out of them is another matter entirely.
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DUCAUDI
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 23 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you think I'll need to go equipped with a printout of the legislation and quote / point out the specific bits that outline my consumer rights and how the onus is on them to prove misuse? Or do you think the courts actually know what they're doing (LOL)?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 06:41 - 24 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes if you go to court you will need to be properly equipped.

In your emails and letters to the dealer, haven't you already quoted the specific bits of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that outlines your rights and explains how the onus is on them to prove misuse?

Again, I recommend that you seek advice from Citizens Advice and or from /r/LegalAdviceUK/.
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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 13:33 - 24 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

TravisBickle wrote:
Do you think I'll need to go equipped with a printout of the legislation and quote / point out the specific bits that outline my consumer rights and how the onus is on them to prove misuse? Or do you think the courts actually know what they're doing (LOL)?


You will absolutely need to go with everything you need to quote or show the court, even down to e-mails, text messages, quotes from case law, quotes from the Acts of Parliament or Statutory Instruments. You need to cite them properly.

If you're in Scotland, the Sheriff will show you some considerable sympathy towards how you present your case if you declare yourself a layman but will absolutely not let you off with being unprepared. It's disrespectful to the Court and to the Sherriff if you aren't. Trust me, Sheriffs DO NOT fuck about.
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