Battery death problems

[Freddyfruitba...]

Really pissed off with battery issues on my 2017 BMW R1200RS. As of the weekend, it's now on its fourth; the most recent one only lasting 18 months. That battery had spent it's life hooked up to an Optimate 4 smart charger so I'd hoped that would have kept it happy during my limited winter riding (which definitely killed one of my previous batteries).

I went away on a trip at the weekend; engine fired up fine as usual on Friday morning, but on Saturday morning, although the dash lit up,out of the blue the bike refused to fire up. A mechanic diagnosed a knackered battery; he said there was no parasitic current drain on the bike, it was charging OK and he was able to jump start it for me. He pointed me at a bike shop an hour away, where I was able to ride buy a replacement and at least salvage my weekend.

Both the mechanic and the shop reckoned that 2 years wasn't unusual for a bike battery. Really??

I brought the old battery home with me and have plugged it in to the Optimate to run its diagnostic tests this week. I have to say that even with the manual I really don't begin to understand the plethora of flashing LEDs that devices produces, but it spent quite a while flashing away and ended up with the familiar pair of green LEDs denoting 'all is well'(!).

So many questions...
Did leaving the Optimate hooked up all winter fry my previous battery?
Has my Optimate now 'cured' my previous battery, so that if I try and get the 2-year warranty honoured I will get laughed at? How can I assess it here first?
How do I stop this happening again? (Wondered previously about buying one of those power packs to carry with me; but last time this happened, at home, I was unable to jump start the bike from a car battery so I'm unconvinced)
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KC100->CB100N->CB250RS--------->DL650AL2->R1200RS->R1250RS

[doggone]

I have a 2013 CRF250 on original battery until it died totally last summer and a 2016 XSR700 which is still on original.
They should last at least 3 years and ought to last at least 5 years provided they aren't let go too low in winter.

[xX-Alex-Xx]

What voltage is the optimate putting out? It's usually a good thing to keep it on a float charge when not in use....

Same question for the regulator on the bike, what's the peak voltage it's throwing at the battery?
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DILLIGAF

[Nobby the Bastard]

[WD Forte]

What sort of battery?
AGM and Li-ion types need a higher charge voltage of say 14.2-14.8V
where yer bog standard Lead Acid will be happy with
13.8-14.2V

You need to know what your bike regulates to and what the
optimate is giving it compared to what the battery needs according
to it's spec sheet.

I pushed the boat out and bought a fancy pants battery for the car which was shite and I replaced it with a cheaper LA type a year later which has been trouble free ever since.

I too have had common LA batteries on bikes that lasted well over the stated 2 year life cycle

I test running voltages and charger voltages from time to time too
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bikers smell of wee

[Kentol750]

This is spooky, I've just got in from rescuing Mrs K from a flat battery on her 2016 r1200r! It's been on the optimate over winter too.

However, imho, that big twin takes a lot to turn over and if it's the original one (she's had bike 2.5 years) it's done well. Maybe the lack of optimate this week and all day out in car park at 5°c might not have helped and it's time to change.
Have you just used oem batteries?
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Some bikes.

[stinkwheel]

Unfortunately, on modern motorcycles, parasitic draws are not necessarily there all the time.

For example, there's an ongoing problem with some of the Royal Enfield Himalayans killing batteries and at least part of the issue is down to the gear sensor. If they are parked in gear, it allows a parasitic load through that sensor.

Maybe fit a battery isolator switch?

Mind you. I was looking at my mates 1200GS at the weekend and something I commented on was that there wasn't a battery box. The battery was mounted under the seat but can be clearly seen when you look up under the back of the bike. Looked in a perfect position to be spattered with road spray and debris. If the battery gets covered with a film of road salt and is slightly damp, a small current can track across the surface of the battery.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Similar to my ZX6R, I’ve upgraded and tested and swapped components (reg/rec most recent) and looked for parasitic drain (documented here, found none) but when left attached and unused the battery dies quickly compared to the almost everlasting one on my R1, which still has an alarm. Baffling.

I think my record battery life when the ZX6R was used almost daily was 6 years, and the lesser-used R1 is on that now although it’s hinting that it needs replacing.

I’ve just bought the Kawasaki a new Yuasa lead acid battery of the same type as last time (increased CCA/capacity but the same dimensions as OE) but it’ll be lithium next time. I hesitated this time because,

I wasn’t sure whether the charging system would cope with lithium. I now think it should because the batteries have built-in controllers.
I had incendiary visions of an underseat lithium battery blowing my balls off, but I have less use for them these days so perhaps it’s time…?

My Oxford Oximiser died recently so I’ve dug out my old Optimate III which I’d lost faith in for some reason, though it seems to be working now. True, those flashing lights on the Optimate are a bit old hat, ‘Blake’s Seven’ compared to the Oxford’s more informative digital display. I’m surprised they haven’t updated.

Optimates claim to recover dead batteries and I used to find a Halfords car charger would too, but in either case the battery is never as good as it was. You can eke a bit more life out of it but I’d rather take the warning and replace than wait for it to inevitably leave me stranded.

[stinkwheel]

Iffy fan switches are a good place to find an intermittant parasitic draw. They are usually on an unswitched live and are a fairly high load thermal switch. Entirely possible for them to have a temperature dependant current leak.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[A100man]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[stinkwheel]

It was 29mA when you measured it. Purely hypothetically, it could have been running the fan of fuel pump or similar half the night.

Out of interest, do you ever switch the charger off/unplug it for a while and leave it connected to the bike? I ask because my charger (not an optimate) ran one of my batteries totally flat when it was left connected but switched off. Shouldn't happen, but it did.

Running a battery totally flat is a good way to kill one. Mine came back but it's on the way out, not holding the same base voltage at rest fully charged (I have a basic voltmeter on the dash).
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[A100man]

Quick sum.. 29mA is enough to drain half capacity of a 12Ah battery in 8.6 days.
so left a couple of weeks and you're fuked, and so is your gel batt most likely.
My feeling is that old skool lead plus acid that puts holes in your jeans are more recoverable.
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[jeffyjeff]

13.2 Volts is about as high as you can expect from a fully charged 12V battery (2.2 volts per cell). The best you can do is to get a battery with the highest amp-hour rating you can that will fit in your bike. Amp-hour rating is a function of battery plate surface area; either bigger plates, or more plates per cell.

Over time, charge and discharge cycles cause bits of plate material to flake off, eventually reducing plate surface area. Old, worn out battery plates resemble swiss cheese, as the plate erosion goes completely through the plate. This reduces the capacity of amp discharge, but does not affect the cell voltage. Therefore, the battery will still measure 13.2V across the terminals, but falls flat upon starter draw. Deep cycle batteries use separator materials that physically support the plates and reduce the flaking; AGM are similar and your best option in applications that use a charging system. All that said, it does not explain why your battery failed prematurely on the Optimate. One theory is that the Optimate is letting the battery voltage drop too low before cycling charge. You might try a different tender.

I personally have had good luck with Yuasa batteries. Going on 4 years with a Yuasa YT 19 BL-BS battery in my 2002 R1150R. The bike gets regular use when I am home, but does go for 2 to 8 month stretches on a battery tender when I am out of country. I use a Shumacher battery tender on it.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[yen_powell]

I'm a big fan of the UKGser site, just to listen to the tales of woe. It is constantly full of people who have a bike that starts at the beginning of the ride and then they only get a click when they stop for fuel a little while later. They all go on to mention that the battery has had an Optimate on the go all through winter. Batteries are being renewed a lot over there.

I've noticed a lot of similar posts this last few years on the Africa Twin (current version) forums as well. Maybe it's a problem with modern cleverer bikes, too much going on electronically compared to a few years ago, I'm not convinced that Optimates are that useful either.

If I was forced to own a BMW and wasn't riding it over a whole winter I think I'd be removing the battery all together, plonking it on a shelf and giving it a normal charge the day before I refit it when the flowers poke their head out of the ground.

My batteries last for many many years without any external charging, but that is a slightly older, thicker generation of bike and more likely no lengthy non riding time.
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Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits

[doggone]

[Easy-X]

I'd consider adding voltmeter and ammeter displays and see what the bike's like while in use.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[Freddyfruitba...]

[stinkwheel]

Out of interest, try disconnecting the alternator (if you can easily reach the plug) and see if the parasitic draw disappears/drops.

I'm not certain but I think the GS might run a field coil alternator and I'm wondering if the regulator might be leaving the field coils slightly energised. Similar systems used to run through a charging relay and a fault on the relay could cause all sorts of issues. I'd imagine a modern BMW would have replaced a charging relay with some sort of semi-conductor which could easily have partial failure states.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[jeffyjeff]

[MCN]

Buy a Ctek.

End of drama.

2 years for a battery is shite.

3-4 reasonable but I'd honestly expect a good, unstressed lead acid battery to slide in for 5 years before replacing.
Usual indicator is that it maybe onky has enough energy to turn the engine over 2 or three times before its exhausted.

Trickle charge is better than letting a battery drain down and then boost up again.
Coz if one forgets to charge it.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[sickpup]

There was a post a long long time ago where Oldtimer iirc said batteries that are left attached to an optimate or the equivalent on a permanent basis can become used to being on the charger and although they are charged they will drop their charge immediately when removed from the charger which seems to be what has happened here.

I think if it was my bike not being used for several months I would put the charger on a timer so it was only on for 1 hour a day or maybe for 6 hours one day a week so the battery can discharge a bit between charges.

[UncleFester]

I also don't leave mine on charge all the time over winter. It gets fully charged and then disconnected and then left, it can easily sit for a month + at a time and still be ok to start. Regardless, i'll still stick it on charge once a month but only for as long as it takes to fully charged again. Plus i'll go for the odd ride here and there to keep things moving.
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Module 1 and 2 passed - October 2014. Happy owner of a 2017 Z1000SX, ex owner of a YBR125 / CB500 / VFR800.